Go to WHO IS THIS GUY CALLED ARIEL?
- Add a comment
- Go to A CATHOLIC BOY'S LONG JOURNEY INTO ATHEISM. PART TWO
Blanche
Yess ... what they call a senior moment. Have 'em often LOL
posted by
ariel70
on November 27, 2005 at 10:51 AM
| link to this | reply
Hi Ariel,
It is a little early for my fuzzy brain, so I was thinking huh? Did I say something I don't remember about Torquemada? Thanks for clarifying (and for the nice comment).
posted by
Blanche.
on November 27, 2005 at 9:39 AM
| link to this | reply
Blanche
Sorry! That comment was meant for tapsel
posted by
ariel70
on November 27, 2005 at 9:28 AM
| link to this | reply
Blanche
Oops, I forgot.
it is almost certain that Torquemada was part Jewish, for his grandmother's birth and religion were deleted from the records.
The same is almost certainly true, not only of Hitler, but Himmler, and Rehnhard Heydrich, the head of the Sischerheitsdient ( internal security) body.
Which explains why, in anti-Semitic eras they were so rabidly anti-Semitic. hedging their bets, so to speak.
posted by
ariel70
on November 27, 2005 at 9:24 AM
| link to this | reply
Blanche
Thanks for calling in. I'm only in here for a little while, before dinner, so I shan't make the long comment that you comment about pride deserves.
This subject is on my list to be dealt with in a later post, when I shall explore it in more depth.
posted by
ariel70
on November 27, 2005 at 9:20 AM
| link to this | reply
Ariel70,
The subject of pride has come up in these comments. I have mused on that subject a lot: the meaning of humility. Is it at all related to "humiliation". One has a positive connotation, the other a profoundly negative one. To humble oneself is a noble virtue, and I believe, the beginnng of truth. To humiliate another, is a scarring "sin".
I am eagerly anticipating more discussion. More musings, the "false humility", or Uriah Heepish kind of humility is as false as you say. Pride in itself is the gateway to evil, in my opinion, and most of us have deceived ourselves one way or another through pride.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 26, 2005 at 9:06 PM
| link to this | reply
hi gramps,
i have read these passages on atheism, and I iwll e amil you personally.
posted by
Gigimaegoodday
on November 26, 2005 at 4:29 PM
| link to this | reply
Curator
If the bishops and other prelates were do move out of their sumptuous palaces, pay off their chauffeurs and other minions, and donning scrip and staff, go forth to preach Christ's message to " Love one another." churches would be packed.
But what do we get, an unending social democrat party political broadcast. Oh, they care ( in theory ) for the bodies of the world's poor and hungry and oppressed, but what of their immortal souls?
posted by
ariel70
on November 26, 2005 at 2:23 PM
| link to this | reply
Ariel, about your take on hair shirts etc
I have to agree with you there. I was brought up Catholic and never even thought twice about making sure I suffered. Which probably explains my first marriage, but I digress.
These days I find it so sad and wasteful to think of that kind of self-inflicted suffering; energy that could be spent in labor to make the lot of others less painful. There is so very much pain in the world; isn't it more holy, to whatever holiness you subscribe, to try to wipe some away?
posted by
curator
on November 26, 2005 at 2:14 PM
| link to this | reply
Duffy
Thank you for your comment. You reflect my views exactly, for this is supposed to be a forum for the posting of controversial and challenging opinions.
I shall drop into your blog next time I'm online. I'm only here for a little while right now.
posted by
ariel70
on November 26, 2005 at 4:55 AM
| link to this | reply
B
THank you for dropping in, and your continuing support.
posted by
ariel70
on November 26, 2005 at 4:52 AM
| link to this | reply
Writersjourney
Thanks for dropping in.
What I intend to do with comments such as yours, that pose profound questions, is not to attempt to reply to them via comment, but to paste them into a separate post, and deal with them in the detail that they deserve. This will form the last post in the series.
So please be patient until I post that piece. I shall log on to that link soon, and let you know what I think. If I don't do it by a comment, then you can be sure that I will reply to it in the post that I've just mentioned.
posted by
ariel70
on November 26, 2005 at 4:50 AM
| link to this | reply
A Very Good Read, Although I Disagree With Some of Your Conclusions.
I find your blog very well-written and insightful although, like many others, I respectfully disagree. It is not so much that I disagree with your facts, as it is the conclusions that you draw from them. But I agree with your comments here, that this is what blogging is for -- to discuss matters in unconventional ways. Your blog is refreshing; particularly when contrasted against the mind-numbing popular media.
Actually, I have written a number of posts that provide a different spin on Christianity -- and they certainly don't resort to the conventional arguments that you may be accustomed to hearing. If you are interested, the link is: http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/life_of_the_spirit/ . If you have time to check them out, I will be very interested in your comments. Anyway, I will continue reading what you have to say because your blog is a good read and engages my mind.
I would also be interested in your take on the role of Catholic Church as the last bastion of Classical Humanism (as distinguished from Secular Humanism) today. I note that in an earlier post you said you were listening to compositions by Bach, and it is not uncommon for the Church I attend to play parts of Beethoven's 9th at the end of Mass. I suspect you appreciate the role of the Church in promoting and preserving Classical Humanist culture in an age that promotes the "art" of anarchy, atonality, and dehumanization. I would be interested in your comments on this.
posted by
writersjourney
on November 26, 2005 at 3:19 AM
| link to this | reply
I understand. Many male friends are nonbelievers too.
(B)
posted by
A-and-B
on November 26, 2005 at 2:00 AM
| link to this | reply
Blogs are for you not others. Write what you want and if someone doesn't like what you say then they shouldn't read it. Though I think they will find they can't help themselves. ;)
posted by
DuffieKym
on November 26, 2005 at 1:57 AM
| link to this | reply
Tapsel
Dear Tapsel, I would never dream of attacking your heart or your head in that way. I respect you and your Christian beliefs far to much ever to consider such a thing.
My aim in writing this series of posts is to set out my own strictly personal reasons for being a non-believer -- an atheist -- not to attack anyone's else's beliefs, nor to attempt to convert anyone to atheism.
Most of what I have written so far about Christianity might appear to some to be negative, but I shall ensure a reasonable balance between good and bad by mentioning the incalculable blessings that Christianity has given mankind
posted by
ariel70
on November 26, 2005 at 1:38 AM
| link to this | reply
Blanche
Thank you for your ( for me, overnight comment )
What I propose to do, rather than dealing with comments such as yours that raise profound questions with a reply comment, is to paste them into a separate piece at the end of my series, and deal with them in depth.
So please be patient until I post that piece.
posted by
ariel70
on November 26, 2005 at 1:30 AM
| link to this | reply
Ariala
Thank you for your comment, and your continuing support.
This is what a blog is for, isn't it? To enable one to read many and varied posts on religion and other subjects, that make no attempt to convert the reader to the writer's point of view.
I think that with all the politician's lies, and the mdedia's distortions, a blog such as blogit is one of the few remaining places where free speech reigns unchecked. Viva El Blogit!!!
posted by
ariel70
on November 26, 2005 at 1:24 AM
| link to this | reply
Frankenkitty
Thank you for your interesting comment. What you say is indeed true, but what I feel is so often overlooked in discussions of religion is the manifest pride with which religious zealots are consumed.
Whereas a true Christian is humble in his worship, the zealot trumpets it to the skies,and would, had he means to do so, convert the whole world to his beliefs ( "Islam or the sword!", for example )
Thos who donned hair shirts and flogged themselves in mediaeval times were, I am aboslutely convinced, eaten up with their pride in being capable of enduring such suffering. And it follows naturally from this the impose the same suffering upon others.
posted by
ariel70
on November 26, 2005 at 1:18 AM
| link to this | reply
I read a book about Evil, by a Dr. Roy Baumstein I think,
and one of the comments the book made about the devil was that pride was Satan's first sin. I found this to be interesting because when you think about it, pride really is the root of many conflicts. Pride initiates jealousy and then anger and retaliation. Leaders can use pride to divide nations into people who support their agendas, no matter how ignorant, and manipulate world economies. This makes me wonder if religion itself really is the problem, or is it just a fraction of an overall larger problem. Well, you are certainly full of intersting information. I should come by here more often and learn a thing or two.
posted by
Flumpystalls3000
on November 25, 2005 at 7:22 PM
| link to this | reply
Ariel, your work is very well done and documented from your experience.
Thanks for giving us insight into your life and beliefs. Most of all, I'm sorry that your brother was among those who died.
posted by
Ariala
on November 25, 2005 at 5:25 PM
| link to this | reply
Ariel70,
It is said that a mind possesses a belief, but in reality a belief possesses the mind." That's a rough approximation of a quote I heard the other night, and I feel it to be true. In all my travels and travails, my heart is comforted by the belief in God, and what some would dismiss as coincidence, I call Providence.
I enjoy your well-thought-out, insightful post, but as others have said, my belief in God, and in Jesus Christ, is immutable. The terrible carnage committed throughout history can't be laid at God's door, He doesn't intervene, this life is the test of character and those who commit these atrocities will have to answer for them to the highest authority. Of that, I am sure.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 25, 2005 at 5:22 PM
| link to this | reply
Ariel70, you have a wonderful way with words. One cannot read your posts without feeling the need for ratiocination. But, your arguments only attack my head. My heart remains true and my faith sure. Nothing can separate me from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus.
posted by
TAPS.
on November 25, 2005 at 1:25 PM
| link to this | reply
Curator
Thank you. I do try to be as even-handed as possible, and while I have so far remarked upon, for example, the evils of religious wars, in a later post, I shall give full credit to Christianity for its incalculable benefits to mankind
posted by
ariel70
on November 25, 2005 at 12:52 PM
| link to this | reply
I have come back to read as I promised. Truly I appreciate your careful thought and rational discussion. Now, I happen to believe in God, but have a terrible time dealing with organized churches -- I have been made to feel most unwelcome in every one I attended. I no longer confuse God with religion, which is something human beings make to suit themselves.
Thank you for this thought-provoking blog.
posted by
curator
on November 25, 2005 at 12:39 PM
| link to this | reply
Myddryn
Indeed so. We must all find our own way and our own personal beliefs, but I feel that having beliefs forced upon one at a formative age, is a powerful brake on rational thought. More especially so if there is an element of fear in those beliefs, e.g. that one will be damned for repudiating them.
Unfortunately, in religion, as well as in politics, there is hardly ever any reasoned discusion, and true meeting of minds. The rock upon which this founders is the admant refusal of so many believers to conside that maybe God doesn't exist.
I try to make it clear that my atheist opinions are just that, beliefs based upon long consideration, and long experience of life.
Thank you for your continuing inerest.
posted by
ariel70
on November 25, 2005 at 11:54 AM
| link to this | reply
Ariel,
Whether Christian or atheist people still try to explain their deaths that makes the most sense to them and gives them the most security. Only those individuals with the strongest of will either refuse to accept certain religious rituals or these same type individuals make the religious rituals for others to follow. I base my own belief for what I feel is right for me, the most comfortable spiritually. Whose to say that God doesn't allow those who refuse to follow the beliefs and regiments set up by our societies as the only afterlife available or not allow those who believe at all to make the choice to be forever nothing. Shadow
posted by
Keshet
on November 25, 2005 at 11:44 AM
| link to this | reply
Ariel70, With you here, but I do not find man's social ineptness compelling
evidence that such immaturity is rationale for the converse treatment that you attribute to the biblical quote that God had created man in his image and likeness. I go along with Wiley Coyote's comment that regardless of man's tendencies to adhere to beliefs espoused by family members and community leaders; regardless of one society's belief in their own "chosen" -- or "elect" is perhaps more democratic -- nature; regardless of social man's adherence to cultural norms, like religion as much as language, that we must believe what we believe; I simply believe in God childishly, the way I choose to, and refuse to abandon those beliefs simply because we on earth are clueless.
posted by
kingmi
on November 25, 2005 at 10:55 AM
| link to this | reply