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Ariel...again...great writing and nice historical perspective....
I understand what you are trying to say, and I also agree in part with Numinous' comments, too. Good job.
posted by
MedusaNextDoor
on September 12, 2005 at 7:06 AM
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French people hate us because we have no respect for their language -- a
view I do not share. I suppose the British could fault us for having less respect than they have for their monarchy and lords. It is all a matter of perspective. And most of the people living today were in no way involved in the freeing of Britain and France. Actually, America didn't send troops until we were attacked, so it might be legitimately seen as isolationist. And of course, we don't have to learn all the languages that Europeans legitimately must....
posted by
WindTapper
on September 11, 2005 at 5:37 PM
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Great post, Ariel,
thanks for the reminders from history.
Sometimes I wonder if the contempt that Europeans feel for Americans (I'm referring to a general attitude, not personal antipathy) is in part because of our relative youth (what can THEY know, they're only teens!) and as well a snobbery sort of akin to our status as noveau rich (sp?). But in actuality I would venture to guess that it's far more complicated than that.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on September 11, 2005 at 4:43 PM
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NICKADEMAS
I did not suggest for a moment, nor did I imply that all British and all Europeans hate the Americans ; that would be utterly absurd and insulting, and I'm not in the business of insulting people. I'm sure that millions of people in both will be eternally gratef ul to America.
You must admit that there is a very real strand of anti-Americanism in Britain and in Europe, and it was the roots of this that I was exploring in my post.
And please note that I eschewed any comment whatsoever on current American domestic and foreign policy ; it was an historical article, not a current affairs one
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 1:14 PM
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ARIEL
I am from the UK and I do not hate Americans, like you suggest. At 56, I am not old enough to know World War II, but my father who went in with the British Expeditionary Force and left France via Dunkirk. He then went into France again on D-Day 6th June 1944.
For my father and mothers sake and the sake of all UK citizens at that time, I am grateful for the Americans being dragged into the war by the Japanese by bombing Pearl Harbour. This act was catastrophic for the Americans, who understandably did not want to join the war, which was so far off in another part of the world, but to my parents it meant that there was hope in defeating the Nazis and bringing the world to some sort of order and by keeping them alive.
As far as the French, they have always been a people that have stood against the world. They have an innate fear of the English. It appears we are still at war with them, albeit verbally, and it has continued since the Napoleonic times.
When America and the UK went to war over Afghanistan and then Iraq after 9/11, France and Germany stood against us to get other countries to vote against us in the UN, needless to say France forgets the debt owed to America, Canada and the British, including our Commonwealth countries, for helping to free the country from German occupation.
The trouble is I think that America and Tony Blair, the British Prime Minister, thought that they were the governors and protectorate of the world. This to my mind was a mistake; Blair became the 'Lap-Dog' of America!
It is not that I hate America or Americans; it is that I don’t trust Mr GW Bush, or the Blair’s, for that matter. To safeguard America, which I agree is what he is there for; Mr Bush has even isolated his ally, the British from America.
posted by
Nikademus
on September 11, 2005 at 1:06 PM
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Nunimous ( what a lovely name!)
I agree wholeheartedly with what you say in your comment, and indeed radical measures will have to be take to overcome the fatal divisons in American society.
But we seem to to working to diferent agendas here, for in my post I confined myself rigidly to historical events, making no mention whatever of current American domestic and foreign policy. There were outside the ambit of my post, and it was my firm intention to withhold any comment on current affairs.
As an outsider, with but scant knowledge of American internal affairs, it would be presumptuous of me to offer remedies for her ills. I am more of an historian than a commentator on current affairs, but I can legitmately comment on American history, and her impact today upon other nations today.
Thank you for your interest in my post
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 9:51 AM
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ariel70
While I apperciate your point, I have to say that America under the Bush administration has fallen far short of our image as the "Ideal" society. Our government has become overrun with corrutption and crooked politians. We here in the USA need to take control of the situation, and not be content to rest on the laurels of past heros, before our society becomes another example of what happens when citizens become complacent.
posted by
Numinous
on September 11, 2005 at 9:36 AM
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Flame
I am intrigued! What is the main thrust of this book that you mention? Please take a minute or two to give me a brief outline as a comment on my blog.
Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any book that deals specifically with the subject of my post ; which is partly why I felt impelled to write it, to make some attempt to the redress the balance. I'm afraid to say that the view of Americans among many British and Europeans is grotesquely unbalance, and I do what I can to overcome this
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 7:10 AM
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ocean
Obviously many Americans are saddened and outraged at the direction in which their country is drifting, but one hopes that there remains sufficent social cohesion, and will to surmount the present problems, and put something better in its place.
My piece was in no way an endorsement of Bush and his policies ; nor is it intended as any form of comment on current American domestic and foreign policy. It offers a strictly historical perspective on why other countries should be grateful to America ; it's history, not current affairs.
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 7:04 AM
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Methinks many Americans are anti-American under Bush.
posted by
Oceandancer
on September 11, 2005 at 6:33 AM
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Myddrin again
You could try passing that message on to some others in here ; who knows, they might actually take it to heart.
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 5:49 AM
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myddrin
I couldn't agree more!
Sorry for misspelling your name before
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 5:48 AM
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Kiwi
For your information, Gavrilo Princip, the assassin of Archduke Ferdinand, was born in Bosnia-Herzogovina.
People in glasshouses should not throw stones at fellow bloggers
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 5:46 AM
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Ariel,
Of course I totally agree we should all work toward harmony and friendship to make the whole world better. 
Shadow
posted by
Keshet
on September 11, 2005 at 5:42 AM
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myddrin
No, we should not forget that nasty defeat that you inflicted on the British, but yesterday's enemies should be today's friends
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 5:25 AM
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Your piece shows your great and deep understanding of European affairs in all aspects. You are also right that Chirac will run in to lots of trouble after his presidency, especially in relations to his days as Mayor of Paris. Perhaps that explains why he doesn't want to go and doesn't also tolerate any rival. Furthermore, I will be very happy to get any book or author who has written anything on the love hate relationship between, the US and Europe. However, as for General De Gaulle's contribution to the defeat of France, I have a book handy written by Colonel Antoine Argoud. The name of the Book is La Decadence,I'imposture et La tragedie. It was published in 1974 and banned in France. Nevertheless another insight will be highly welcomed. But my series continues and I will enjoy your comments until the end.
posted by
Flame-thrower
on September 11, 2005 at 5:24 AM
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offbeats
Thank you for your comment. It goes some way to ameliorate my fury and disgust at the one preceding it ; which amply illustrates the attitude of many British and Europeans to Americans that I note in my post.
Nice to know your regarded in that light, isn't it? Must make you feel real good.
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 5:23 AM
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Ariel,
I must appreciate your post with the highest of esteem for the historical content as well as the argument you present. Thank you. I myself have a undergraduate major geared toward early American History (to go along with Historical Archaelogy). I had lax motive to 20th century American and European history so this review helps place a prespective in today's troubled world as well as jacks up my butt in remembering that history does not end just whenever I choose it to end. BTW lets not forget that little disagreement Britian and America had back in the 1770's. 
Shadow
posted by
Keshet
on September 11, 2005 at 5:21 AM
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Kiwi
Thank you for your hysterical rant.
Is this what, for you, passes for reasoned and rational discussion.? If so, it makes me profoundly depressed and angered.
As I was only 9 years old at the outbreak of WW11, I can hardly pretend to be a wounded soldier ; and if I were, I would be outraged at your contemptuous remark, for I would have fought for your freedom to post bigoted, stupid and virulent remarks on blogit.
No doubt my brother who was killed defending your freedom to do so would be delighted at the use to which you are putting it
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 5:19 AM
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ARIEL70
This is a good post! It provides some clarity to me relative to to Euro attitudes.
I will say that as a very proud American, I have developed an attitude of my own regarding some of those nations. God forbid anything happen to France, there would be many, many Americans who would turn a blind eye! There are many gutless wonders in Europe. To them they need to know the middle American could give a rat's ass if they fell off the face of the earth.
Sorry to be blunt, many of us are just so OVER what the world thinks!
posted by
Offy
on September 11, 2005 at 5:17 AM
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What a poor little wounded soldier you are aren't you. Poor old Americans hated by those nasty corrupt Europeans and so ungrateful aren't they. First, let me correct your historical illiteracy. Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by a Serbian nationalist not a Bosnian anarchist. Back in the real world this is complete nonsense. As a Brit i make no bones about the disastrous ideological misleadership of the western world by the American government and the American right. I cannot wait for the day when my country recovers its voice and along with Europe fights for the ideological leadership of the west against America. This leadership will not be won by birth right or fiat but provided by shining an light. Your 'war on terror' has been a disastrous failure, it has ruined Iraq and bolstered the cause of terrorism world-wide to the point where the dead of London are owed an explanation from Capitol Hill. AQ doesnt need to directly organise attacks anymore because sections of western muslim communities are so alienated by a feckless and hypocritical west that people fall into there arms. Indeed, if it is continued the war on terror will threaten the very social cohesion of the societies it is supposed to protect. Hurricane Katrina showed how inept the American government actually is.
However, i like most people can make the distinction between political and ideological opposition to America's government and its people. I do not 'hate Americans', i have a couple as friends, as your paranoid schema insists anybody who opposes its government politically and ideologically does.
posted by
Leafonariver
on September 11, 2005 at 5:10 AM
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What a poor little wounded soldier you are aren't you. Poor old Americans hated by those nasty corrupt Europeans and so ungrateful aren't they. First, let me correct your historical illiteracy. Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by a Serbian nationalist not a Bosnian anarchist. Back in the real world this is complete nonsense. As a Brit i make no bones about the disastrous ideological misleadership of the western world by the American government and the American right. I cannot wait for the day when my country recovers its voice and along with Europe fights for the ideological leadership of the west against America. This leadership will not be won by birth right or fiat but provided by shining an light. Your 'war on terror' has been a disastrous failure, it has ruined Iraq and bolstered the cause of terrorism world-wide to the point where the dead of London are owed an explanation from Capitol Hill. Indeed, if it is continued the war on terror will threaten the very social cohesion of the societies it is supposed to protect. Hurricane Katrina showed how inept the American government actually is.
However, i like most people can make the distinction between political and ideological opposition to America's government and its people. I do not 'hate Americans', i have a couple as friends, as your paranoid schema insists anybody who opposes its government politically and ideologically does.
posted by
Leafonariver
on September 11, 2005 at 5:08 AM
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...understood, Ariel. And, yes, it's antagonistic leaders working that Media connection again. China, for example, monitors and controls internet use, including blogs, of course.
posted by
reasons
on September 11, 2005 at 5:07 AM
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flight
Was not, I meant
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 4:56 AM
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flight
Yes indeed! They use their anti-Americanism to make their own corruption and incompetence, and having driven their own economies into decline, they are undoubtedly motivated by envy of American economic might.
I was implying that all Europeans thing in the way that I noted, but their leaders, and those who mould their opinions in the media are trying to force them to think in that way. I have no doubt that many millions of Europeans will be eternally grateful to America for what she has done for them
posted by
ariel70
on September 11, 2005 at 4:55 AM
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...or are the antagonist leaders of the countries you mention far more anti-American than the ordinary people they lead?
posted by
reasons
on September 11, 2005 at 4:50 AM
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