Go to I WRITE, THEREFORE I AM
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- Go to The ultimate lesson: what a wise woman taught me about unconditional love!
Sanity, thanks for commenting. I hope you never have to be put to
that test, as well.
posted by
Julia.
on August 3, 2004 at 12:33 PM
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I really don't know. And I hope I never have to find out. I am a reactionary type person. I also believe that the universe gave you a brain for a reason, and that if you choose not to use said brain, well - you're pretty much screwed and why should I worry about your actions? So I really don't know.
posted by
SanitySlipping
on August 3, 2004 at 12:27 PM
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Wilds, having that kind of a child is surely a difficult test for a parent,
and I wish no one ever had to contemplate that kind of thing, but sadly they do. It's also hard to be hypothetical...your answer was very honest.
posted by
Julia.
on August 3, 2004 at 9:39 AM
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scriber, thanks for visiting. What you are saying is true, but as I was
trying to point out earlier to Whammie, there are often incidences where it's not just "mother's love" convincing herself her child was "a good boy" and looking away at the other parts of him. Sometimes, they have absolutely NO IDEA that the child IS anything but a good boy. And every situation is unique.
posted by
Julia.
on August 3, 2004 at 9:36 AM
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sassy, thank you for that wonderful comment and for sharing with me.
My father loves conditionally, too, and when I told him that, he laughed. He doesn't see it. Strange how one can be so deluded about one's own actions.
posted by
Julia.
on August 3, 2004 at 9:32 AM
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Quirks
Your mother was an outstanding and exceptional woman. Would I be able to exemplify such love? I don't know. We tell our children,"I love you, I don't like your behavior." In such an extreme situation, could I still be of such caliber? I don't want to know. In a moment of contemplation, I'm considering that a whole lifetime couldn't be wiped away with a day.....and yet, I don't know. That's really a good question to think about. Good post, Quirks
I want to believe I'm of such depth.
posted by
Wildwoman_Laloba
on August 3, 2004 at 9:29 AM
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Quirky--we see it every day on TV--"He was a good boy" --mother's love.
at the scene of carnage.love Scriber
posted by
scriber
on August 3, 2004 at 9:11 AM
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Great post
You have captured the very essence of what a Mother should be all about. I was loved conditionally by my step-father. Everything that I did he took as a personal attack on his reputation. In the end, I was disinherited as I could never measure up to what he wanted me to be. I am successful today, as well as being a model citizen. I have never done anything that would cause shame, but this mans expectations were so high that no child could have reached the expected goals. My mother has loved me through all of life's ups and downs. My children are great kids, but if they did something unspeakabkle, I would love them regardless of what it was.
posted by
Sherri_G
on August 3, 2004 at 9:09 AM
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Hannah B, thanks for that lovely, poetic comment.
posted by
Julia.
on August 3, 2004 at 9:01 AM
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fire--whenchy DOES rule, doesn't she!!
posted by
Julia.
on August 3, 2004 at 9:00 AM
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wenchy, thank you very much, I appreciate that.
posted by
Julia.
on August 3, 2004 at 9:00 AM
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Whammie, I don't have an answer, I can only speak for myself,
I knew him very well and I saw NOTHING. But then again, I was only 15. My Dad was not around and I am pretty sure that my mother did not see anything strange in his behavior. She was just as shocked as the rest of us when he confessed, and I don't believe she is the type to hide her head in the sand.
posted by
Julia.
on August 3, 2004 at 8:58 AM
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A portrait of a lovely woman,
beautifully rendered.
posted by
Hannah_B
on August 3, 2004 at 7:14 AM
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thebuxomwench,
You rule, sister!!
posted by
SpitFire70
on August 3, 2004 at 12:04 AM
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Hey Quirky One, just a little hello to let you know you are being thought
of with much love, right here, right now
xx.
posted by
Moohahaha
on August 2, 2004 at 11:14 PM
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There were no signs, or no one wanted to see them???????
Not trying to be harsh, just real..............................
Whammie 
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on August 2, 2004 at 11:08 PM
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Whammie, to clarify, no one knew about his mental illness, if that was
what it was.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 10:43 PM
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Whammie, in this case, we only found out the day he was
arrested, and he committed suicide that night. So...
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 10:41 PM
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Quirky, I will check out your other comments...
In the past they simply used to institutionalize the mentally ill........which is the preferred option?
Whammie 
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on August 2, 2004 at 10:22 PM
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Whammie, I totally understand what you are saying, and for many
situations I am sure this is entirely the case. However, it wasn't that way with my brother. Not sure if you read any of my earlier writings about it, but he was not a criminal, had never to anyone's knowledge done anything that could be considered criminal, and most likely had some form of mental illness in order to kill people but let no one see the troubled soul inside. So a "boot in the ass" would do nothing for him. I can't speak for any of the others, I'm sure you know more in that regards.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 10:15 PM
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Everytime a criminal gets shot by the Police, the family always says the
same thing...........he or she was turning their lives around!!!!!!. He was a Good Boy! It is always the same script!
Perhaps if he had had a boot in his ass when he was 4, when he was 37 or 42, or 31, he would not have been shot and killed by the police. I see both ends, and I do want to go home at the end of my shift!
Luv,
Whammie
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on August 2, 2004 at 9:58 PM
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whammie, thanks for your comment. I don't think "loving unconditionally"
and "enabling" (or failing to set boundaries in the 4-year-old) are the same thing. The enabler does do that out of love, and a desire to please, but it's an "action" as opposed to a "feeling."
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 9:36 PM
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I am not a parent, true enough, but isn't there some point where tough love
should take over?
I remember a call from a Mom whose son called her and said that he had been arrested but had done "nothing" wrong.
I found out that while he had a pending case for selling drugs, and Mom had mortgaged her house to pay for his defense, he was out doing the same, same, same.
This may not be akin to homicide, and I do understand the love aspect, but at what point does one need to stop enabling and force the offspring to stand on their own two feet and to stop enabling.
My brother will be 40 this year and he is a professional man, a lawyer, but he will never stop mooching off Dad, because he knows he can!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moms never stop loving, but sometimes it seems it would be to the child's benefit, it they would turn their backs and let the children suffer responsibility for their actions.
And when I see 4 year-olds making the rules, you can just tell what the future is bound to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Whammie
posted by
WHAMENATOR
on August 2, 2004 at 9:25 PM
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groucho, very sweet thing to say, thank you.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 9:24 PM
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some days it's not easy
but i'm still new to parenting -- only been at it four years -- your mother is most admirable. as are you. tg
posted by
tbgroucho
on August 2, 2004 at 9:12 PM
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vibrance, thanks! I'm not sure I understand the last part of your comment,
perhaps there is a typo?
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 7:17 PM
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you love the child.
This is a powerful piece...leaving me for more...~Vibrance~
posted by
Vibrance
on August 2, 2004 at 7:10 PM
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Fire, thanks so much for that excellent comment and for sharing
your perspective on this.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 6:40 PM
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You know I believe that we all choose our parents and life experiences.
We may not choose exactly how we will have the experience but it is all to perfect our souls. Usually, the harder the challenge, the bigger the lesson, = the more we've grown in spirit. "Old souls" (meaning one who has lived many many lives so far) have grown in spirit more than a younger soul due to experiences lived and learned in lives they've lived. Take Helen Keller as an example of a very old soul.
I believe your mother is an old soul and the mothers who would have turned their backs on their son in that situation or even the ones (especially the ones) that disown their child for much lesser offenses are very young souls that will probably live many more lives. Hopefully, they will reach a point as to where they feel they have experienced and learned what they hoped to. It is not easy for us to choose to come into a physical life because if there was a hell, we're living it now. The other side is perfect bliss. Your brother was also an older soul, believe it or not.
posted by
SpitFire70
on August 2, 2004 at 6:33 PM
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katray, thank you so much. I pray that for you, too.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 6:17 PM
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wenchy, thank you. Your comment has touched ME as well.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 6:16 PM
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Ca88, I would definitely hope that for you as well.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 6:15 PM
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scoop, I'm sure you are right. I have no idea of percentages, but
even a small number of children who have been cast aside for their "imperfections" is too many.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 6:14 PM
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T99, thank you for your honest response.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 6:13 PM
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qwerty, I agee, parental affection shold never be conditional.
Sadly, for many children it is.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 6:12 PM
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Beautiful testament to the power of a mother's love
My answer is a resounding yes too. I pray the bond is never tested to this degree, but if so, I know it would stay intact.
posted by
Katray2
on August 2, 2004 at 5:59 PM
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I hope so, I hope I carry that kind of love within me. I believe that I do.
What a beautiful Mama you have, Quirky, this post touched me very much xxxxxx.
posted by
Moohahaha
on August 2, 2004 at 5:56 PM
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Quirky, I love my children no matter what. I hope I never have to go through what your mother did in order to prove it. *hugs*
posted by
Ca88andra
on August 2, 2004 at 4:00 PM
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I think what I have seen over the years, a large majority of parents
will stand by their children no matter what.
posted by
scoop
on August 2, 2004 at 3:45 PM
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I might still love them, but I don't think I would like them.
posted by
Tamara99
on August 2, 2004 at 3:25 PM
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seems like
the parents of children who do unspeakable acts more often than not still love them. Timothy Mcveigh is one example, and on a more personal note I know a fellow whose son went on a killing rampage one day out of the blue and killed three or four people. He still calls him all the time. He still loves his son, and perhaps that's a good thing because if he didn't, he might be committing a worse crime--making parental affection conditional.
posted by
qwertyui
on August 2, 2004 at 2:20 PM
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RachelAnna, thanks! I don't know you very well, but I hope
you can be that supportive as well. I'm sure you can, you have the right thoughts and the right attitude!!
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 1:26 PM
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Great post!
I hope I can be as supportive and loving of my children as your mother is of hers. Mother's like your are an inspiration to us all.
posted by
RachelAnna
on August 2, 2004 at 1:22 PM
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Kay-ren, lol. What would you blog about if not for me???
I will read that a bit later today. Thanks for the link!
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 1:19 PM
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Shadow, many parents do denounce their child for being gay, or
marrying someone of another race, and a hundred other reasons. It happens all too often. I know I wouldn't, no matter what.
posted by
Julia.
on August 2, 2004 at 1:18 PM
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You did it again. Your post got me ranting. I planned on being childless, maybe this is why.
Go to The Mother Lioness in Me Comes Out to Roar and Rant
posted by
Kay-Ren
on August 2, 2004 at 1:16 PM
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Quirk,
If that child come my body, then no matter what they did, I would never refuse to love them. This made me think of a friend who finally told his mom he was gay and she denounced them publicly as not her son and was a shame to God and man both. I wondered what she would have said if he had done something much worse indeed. shadow
posted by
Keshet
on August 2, 2004 at 11:23 AM
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