Comments on Saint Vs. Sinner

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terpgirl30, I think you have got the point right .

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 9:45 PM | link to this | reply

Afzal The saints/sinners thing has evolved a bit but I'd

like to comment on the original post.  You asked if by definition then aren't sinners more important than saints.  It's a very interesting take on the direction given to help sinners.   I don't think either is better or worse.  I don't think any person is better or worse than another the broad sense of the word.

In the way you set out the facts that saints are to take care of the sinners, I only take that to mean that because in certain instances they are stronger, saints are entrusted with more responsibility.  So one could argue that it's just the opposite...that saints are much more important as they are entrusted with taking care of the sinner. 

In reality, however, I think one hand feeds the other.  There are times when each of us plays the role of the saint and the sinner.  I can't think of a single person who is all one way or another.

posted by terpgirl30 on September 5, 2006 at 9:11 PM | link to this | reply

Plz. read "wants to meet her" .spelling error.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 7:17 PM | link to this | reply

lustorlove, plz don't worry , she has changed now . She is lucky to have a
lovely mother like you . Plz tell her that her uncle from India wants to me her to tell her how good her mother is.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 7:15 PM | link to this | reply

well my daughter knows I wouldnt steal a piece of gum and at times she has made fun of me, being so clean cut.

posted by Lanetay on September 5, 2006 at 7:11 PM | link to this | reply

Thanks, Sweetie.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 7:04 PM | link to this | reply

lustorlove , replace born instinctively with "lern instintively " to
make it more clear. Thanks.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 7:03 PM | link to this | reply

lustorlove , I wanted to say that moral values are not born instinctiely
but have to be taught and are taught otherwise whatever we did we would think that it is right to do so .

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 7:01 PM | link to this | reply

afzal
You're welcome, love.  Anytime   

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 7:00 PM | link to this | reply

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:59 PM | link to this | reply

Sunny , you are a positive thinker , and very many thanks for participating
in this debate.It has been really nice talking to you this morning . You have provided me with great emotional support always when I needed .

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:59 PM | link to this | reply

sinner
I don't think that the definition of sinner and saint are what everyone believe is right.  I have raised my kids with the meaning of right and wrong, but my youngest daughter got with some bad people where she learned to shop lift, but my disagreement with her think and my disappointment in her made her change her ways.

posted by Lanetay on September 5, 2006 at 6:58 PM | link to this | reply

No more questions . I must thank my dear Sunny for being so responsive
and critical in her approach.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:56 PM | link to this | reply

lustorlove, I like to love and respect every one .

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:55 PM | link to this | reply

Any more questions?
 

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:54 PM | link to this | reply

llustorlove , that is what I was trying to stress that a sinner of one
society could become a saint in another society depending on the choice he makes .

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:54 PM | link to this | reply

afzal50
I am surprised at this statement from you, but thank you for it

posted by Lanetay on September 5, 2006 at 6:53 PM | link to this | reply

Sunny , You are absolutely right . Your opinion does make sense.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:52 PM | link to this | reply

sinner
All people are giving the chose to do right or wrong and the type of environment determines how they grow up along with their genes, and physical and mental make up.

posted by Lanetay on September 5, 2006 at 6:48 PM | link to this | reply

I don't agree.
People teach their children right from wrong because they have been TOLD that there is right from wrong...instead of just following one's natural instincts.

Let's use nudity for example... Many beliefs are against nudity...so nudity would NOT be considerd moral....but it is moral, and natural....it only becomes immoral when someone puts lies out there that it's filthy and discusting, etc.
I know of many that practice nudity regularly, and it is not something that is frowned upon, or looked at in any negative manner, nor is any thought given to it.

Does this make sense?

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:47 PM | link to this | reply

lustorlove , you are always pure in your thought and feeling and that makes
you a saint in the context of my post and opinion. I respect you .

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:46 PM | link to this | reply

Voltaire , If I am not wrong was a french thinker.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:45 PM | link to this | reply

afzal50
WOW I cant believe you just said that

posted by Lanetay on September 5, 2006 at 6:44 PM | link to this | reply

Sunny , I don't think morality is instinctely realised unless some body
teaches you .Are we not taught and do we not teach our children what is right and wrong . If it could come instinctively then there would not have been any need for teaching moral science in schools.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:43 PM | link to this | reply

LOL....Who's Voltaire?

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:43 PM | link to this | reply

That's another good point...different societies have different
standards of what right and wrong is....that just proves what I said. 
It's like with animals.....You don't see anyone telling them what is right and what is wrong, and they don't worry for such things. What is right and wrong for them is born into them. It's all natural.

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:43 PM | link to this | reply

Sunny , I agree with you . You remind me of Voltaire that "Even if there is
no God , it is necessary to create one " so is with moral values , it needs to be standardised otherwise people will not have the sense of analysing and differentiating right from wrong . It is true that every society has different set of moral values so how can there be any standard fixed for calling any thing wrong or right but still somethings are universally accepted to be wrong , like no society would accept killing any body right , ofcourse life taken by a judge to avenge murder is another thing.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:39 PM | link to this | reply

afzal
I'm not sure what you're saying, cause I don't believe that is possible.
Define morals.  It's like I said. Knowledge of right and wrong comes from inside.  Now I'm not saying that people won't be inclined to do wrong....but they will know it is so.

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:34 PM | link to this | reply

lustorlove , plz believe me according to me you are 100% Saint.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:34 PM | link to this | reply

What would happen if the society of the desert developed with people
having no morals.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:31 PM | link to this | reply

Saint
I am a little bit of both but more Saint, in my own mind

posted by Lanetay on September 5, 2006 at 6:29 PM | link to this | reply

And what may indecent mean?
It's a word, indecent is part of "sin"....someone tells you something is indecent, but it's not.
Yes, people have a sense of values instinctively.

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:28 PM | link to this | reply

Afzal, sweetie...if someone was born under those circumstances
There would be no such thing as lying and cheating, etc. 
For whom would be around to give or receive lies? Or to cheat with?

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:27 PM | link to this | reply

Sunny , So you think that if some one is born in a desert or jungle with
none around he/she would no about moral values instictively. Would he/she know what is a lie, what is indecent , and what is cheating etc.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:25 PM | link to this | reply

CunninLinguist, Thanks for stopping by in two parts.

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:21 PM | link to this | reply

afzal
I don't believe in sin. Sin is something created by religion, something used to "control" people.....
Like if you "sin" this or that bad thing will happen to you.  If you don't do this, you're sinning, if you do that you're sinning.  It's all about control.

People have built in instincts that tell them right from wrong, without having to be threatend into being slaves of the powerful.

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:10 PM | link to this | reply

I'm part Saint ...part Sinner....
You can say I'm a little bit country and a little bit rock n roll ...  Good Post!   Melody

posted by CunningLinguist on September 5, 2006 at 6:09 PM | link to this | reply

Why doyou think there is no such thing as a sin in the context of my post .

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 6:05 PM | link to this | reply

afzal
Thanks so much, and Good Morning to you!   

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 6:01 PM | link to this | reply

Thanks for watching me closely as you always do . Good evening .

posted by afzal50 on September 5, 2006 at 5:58 PM | link to this | reply

afzal
Hard for me to say.  I don't actually believe in saints. Or sinners for that matter. LOL

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on September 5, 2006 at 5:56 PM | link to this | reply