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gome
You have to think about it sort of the way many white, patriotic Americans think about immigration. "We can only support so many up here in heaven, so we have rules about who can get in. Sorry about that--even though my grandparents or great-grandparents were immigrants, or I would not be here." I wouldn't compare being on a university faculty to heaven, but not terribly long ago, prestigious universities were quite upfront about what percentage of Jews could be allowed on the faculty. Anyway, I can't think of a more boring place than the Christian heaven. Hemlocker
posted by
Hemlocker
on August 21, 2005 at 10:10 PM
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Ach, Gome, how the heck would you survive . . .
without a bazillion world religions as fodder for your bloggings. Life would be so boring, eh? Would your wife be grateful if you didn't blog so that you could spend more time fixing squeaky hinges and other things on her "honey-do list"? 
Certain family members and I have had some great discussions on the mercy and justice of God. If God was all merciful, how could he send people to hell? But if God is completely just, then ALL OF US deserve to be banished to hell because of our sin natures. Yes, and then there are those poor sods who never do hear the Gospel. What of them?
I do still (in spite of your reasoned arguments and the comments of others) believe in God, a heaven and a hell. In MY own mind, there is too much evidence pointing to God than away from God. Sure, OK you're saying, that's fine. Perhaps you might concur that there's some sort of force out there of sorts. Perhaps, at the minimum, an intelligent designer. But why the Christian God? Why not one of the millions of gods (or Gods) that Hindus worship? To be succinct (because I have to get ready for work tomorrow so need to keep moving), what drew me to God (i.e. the Christian God) was the love of God. Nowhere else (that I'm aware of) was a loving God part of other religious beliefs. As well, many or most of the world religions involve some sort of system of works. Having attempted to turn over a new leaf multiple times, yet almost always failing, I know that my deeds will not get me into heaven. I will always prove inadequate left to my own devices. So those works based religions are out for me. The whole Mormon salvation by proxy is too danged hokey for me, too, and they also believe in salvation via good works, not to mention the fact that a Mormon woman's goal in life (and the life to come) is to be eternally pregnant and populate her own planet along with her husband. Too strange!
So in my early 20s, searching for a belief system I could sink my teeth into, I returned to the faith of my fathers and settled into Christianity. It is my opinion that most people turn away from Christianity because those who call themselves Christians do not live up to the message of the Gospel. The whole dilemma of the Gospel of Christ is the belief of salvation based on faith . . . and yet one's faith is dead without works. So many people get into Christianity perhaps because it's deemed an easy way to Heaven . . . and yet their lives and actions do not demonstrate to the world that they've truly been changed. I do fail. My works often don't demonstrate that I am a child of God. But I hang onto the comment Jesus made when he said we should forgive others 70 x 7, and with gratitude I realize again that God is willing to forgive ME 70 x 7 and then some!
Dang, didn't I say I was going to be succinct? I have more to say but will have to wait for another day. Have a great week! 
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 21, 2005 at 6:49 PM
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avant-garde -- I am surprised as well -- reasonable contention after
reasonable contention ignored by willfull blindness.
posted by
gomedome
on August 21, 2005 at 2:36 PM
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Okay MandaLee -- instead of trying to pick apart what you are saying
I will leave you with just one thought. If the bible is the word of God and Jesus is the one true path to eternal life, I feel sorry for the other suckers who are adhering to other beliefs with the same certainty that you have. Somewhere along the line countless billions of souls are left out.
posted by
gomedome
on August 21, 2005 at 2:34 PM
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gomer
good post. i'm surprised many times by the level of denial that exists here.
posted by
avant-garde
on August 21, 2005 at 1:35 PM
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Gomedome,
That's right.
Jesus said so in the Bible.
God should know, he loved the world enough to give us Jesus, who died for our sins, so that those who believe in Him will not perish, but have eternal life,(John 3:16, The Bible).
posted by
Amanda__
on August 21, 2005 at 12:50 PM
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MandaLee -- HA HA HA HA HA HA HA - I get it now, you are a comedian
Sorry, you sucked me into thinking that you were serious at first, my apologies. It was the 100% accurate part that brought on the hysterical laughter...good one....but back to the point that you are skipping right over because you do not have a good answer: You are now suggesting that if a person is not exposed to the word of Jesus as saviour then they are allright somehow but if they are exposed and do not accept it they are not allright.
posted by
gomedome
on August 21, 2005 at 12:31 PM
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Gomedome,
You didn't have information or even know Jesus was an option, so acceptance or denial wasn't your choice.
However, now that you have information, you can accept or reject Jesus. The choice is yours.
Yes, I believe what you are assuming is,"bunk." Did you know that prophecies, events, people and places in the Bible have been scientifically proven to be 100% accurate?
posted by
Amanda__
on August 21, 2005 at 12:20 PM
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MandaLee --- do you really believe that bunk?
Accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour was not an option for me when growing up, nor was it for countless others because our parents didn't believe in it. Just by this simple fact alone, countless millions of innocents cannot reach heaven because their parents believed differently and did not expose them to a doctrine that holds Jesus as ultimate saviour. One more time a Christian lets the realities of these numbers be dismissed and with them flippantly dismiss the countless souls associated with these people. How can this make any sense?
posted by
gomedome
on August 21, 2005 at 12:04 PM
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Gomedome,
With all due respect, you have misunderstood Heaven. Jesus isn't some meanie who wants to exclude people from the joy they'll experience from recieving him as their personal Lord and Savior.
We are not robots. The Lord gave us free will. As a result, those who reject Jesus as their Lord and Savior are choosing to exclude themselves from forgiveness of sin, Heaven and Jesus' gift of eternal life that He promises in the Bible.
I respect your differing belief from mine, I'm simply giving you something to think about.
posted by
Amanda__
on August 21, 2005 at 11:53 AM
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Hey, I never liked crowds.
I might get stuck at Fiddler's Green anyway.If I'm lucky.
posted by
majroj
on August 21, 2005 at 11:43 AM
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Double feature - delete one.
posted by
reasons
on August 21, 2005 at 11:03 AM
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Sorry to hear of your banishment...Ohh...and, look around when you're up there - for the banishers.
posted by
reasons
on August 21, 2005 at 11:01 AM
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Sorry to hear of your banishment...Ohh...and, look around when you're up there - for the banishers.
posted by
reasons
on August 21, 2005 at 11:01 AM
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