Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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aardvark
I've known many people who have been very sexually active before they settled down and they were have been faithful and loving with their spouses afterwards. I am not one of them, but it is not because of choice. I just had really bad luck before I met my wife. We were very active with each other before we got married though and I do not think for one moment it hurt the relationship at all. Although this is something that is different for each person and I would not tell everyone to go out and have sex. Know who you are before you become sexually active with anyone. it could screw you up if you are not in the right state of mind.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 23, 2004 at 9:17 PM
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big 10 aGAIN
lets recap.
actually what we consider the first three should probably be lumped together as one. The basic idea is how to contemplate God or the lack thereof.
Basically contemplate Existence. To do is to be and all that.
About Adultery, since we seem to be on the subject.
I was surprised when I looked the word up in the dictionary.
It had nothing to do with sex.
It means, "covenant breaking".
I thought a little about this.
Let's say we restrain ourselves sexually in accordance with our take on "adultery", meaning sex outside of the marriage covenant --
then this means we can break other agreements or covenants?
Or we can say we are going to do something, then back out on it?
If we say adultery is covenant breaking in general, then we go to a higher level than sexual control - we go to the "man of his word" state.
Too many of us are afraid of sex anyway -- so we find comfort in sometihng that seems to restrict sex. We've got to remember that we are reading through Anglican colored glasses here -- King James translation and later translatoijns that vary little from it.
Then let's go to another commandment while we're at it.
the one against "bear false witness against thy neighbor."
It doesn't prohibit lying.
It prohibits perjury and slander -- and gossip -- and any type of false statements that harm "thy neighbor" -- Jesus once defined who "my neighbor" is -- we think of that story as simply a example of kindness - the Good Samaritan. Read it again.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 23, 2004 at 6:28 PM
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Not for me it doesn't. I would NEVER marry a virgin. I want a man who knows what he's doing, and that's only going to happen with a man who has sexual experience.
posted by
Tamara99
on April 23, 2004 at 4:28 PM
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Free sex among singles does nothing but detract from the marriage commitment they may eventually make.
posted by
aardvark
on April 23, 2004 at 4:20 PM
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wrong on three
the jealous go thing -- I said, "possessive" -- that's sort of a thing between two and three.
Three is an admonition to meditation -- meditate on the infiniteness of Existence God -- to make Existence mundane is to be guilty of being blind to the true nature of Existence.
Cussing and swearing are not really proscribed by this commandment --
Jesus said it best "You say "Lord, Lord", but do not the things I say."
Taking God's name in vain is declaring yourself a Christian, then treating people wrongly -- and more -- this requires meditation.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 23, 2004 at 3:47 PM
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kooka
check out my version, about three messages down.
I hope I'm getting my numbers right.
I - If you can accept Existence as the ultimate God, then you can also know that no gods can be the ultimate god.
II - images -- not necessarily graven -- to define God -- to place God in a limited form -- male anthropomorphic, such as most religionists of Judaism, Christianity and Mohammedanism like to portray -- this can't be done -- this is not God. Infinite Existence cannot be imaged. Agree with me here will you.
III - yeah, well - so it's quite a statement -- here we're talking God --YHVH -- Existence -- talking about relations with people -- could be quite a stretch -- depends if you're the people that feels you have the relations. We're not talking jealousy here as much as we're talking devotion on the part of God to people -- so we have a God watching people -- so? -- depends if you're a people that feels they're being watched -- which is another trait of an image -- so what are we to make of this? My take is that God as Existence is neutral -- but at the same time, we, being part of existence . . . do you think maybe that anything that happens in the Universe is felt throughout? Hmmm . . .
IV - hey I like resting from my labors -- hate to have that boss work me 12 hours a day, 7 days a week --
Things we have to realise here -- some of these things -- Sabbath Rest -- clean and unclean meats -- circumcision -- were in response to certain things -- bosses working people every day -- certain poisons in pork and in snails and oysters, etc. -- we can't eat certain fish out of the Mississippi because their bodies retain the toxins found there (happen to be fish listed as unclean in Leviticus) -- and of course unclean habits -- or the inability to keep clean for one reason or another -- infections in the uncircumcised are not nice things.
Sometimes it took an edict from God for people to help themselves.
So the Sabbath became a commanded thing -- its intent was to help peole, keep them from dying an early death, from exhuastion, etc.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 23, 2004 at 3:39 PM
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gheeghee
If you take the commandment as guidelines, then I have no problem with them, except the first four (I missed the graven image one somehow). As I talked about in my last post there are going to be times when you need to break the rules in order to do what is right. The commandments cause problems by saying you can not break the rules, even for a good reason, or you sin. For the most part the last six commandments are needed for any society to function and therefore are going to pop up anywhere civilization starts, which to me makes it obvious that there are man made and not God given. You do need to put in rule sot keep those who wish to detract from society in order.
As for westwend's version, they are the same thing, but better explained. An example of summarizing thing and changing them ever so slightly to get more control of people and to make it so people can understand them easier (Remember that at the time literacy was not high in the working class where would want the most control, knowing that it is these people who can revolt, so make it as simple as possible for them to understand). But the message is better when it is explained in greater detail.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 23, 2004 at 3:21 PM
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inequity
you'll see that word down in number three (?)
even the writers didn't number the 10 the same -- three is four and four is three -- and they are worded differently in different places and there is dispute among the religions about them.
mainly I want to talk about the word inequity -- unequal.
New Testament we find the words "righteousness" and "iniquity" -- again check out a Greek lexicon -- meanings tend to lean more toward "equal treatment of people" rather than a word with an obsucre meaning that is open to interpretation.
Just a footnote.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 23, 2004 at 12:02 PM
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so basically, kooka, your main problem is with the 1st three commandments?
side note: What do you think of the other version of the 10 commandments?
posted by
Gheeghee
on April 23, 2004 at 11:49 AM
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the 10 call ' em precepts -- that's the real Hebrew word anyway
boy you're funny.
sometimes too many people are too serious.
I see you all are a bit serious.
So am I -- I think organized religion has done a great disservice to the believers and those who would believe.
like with the Big Ten -- they were originally written one way and ended up another -- Our read on them comes basically from 16th Centuray Anglicanism which somes from preceding Catholicism and so on.
If anyone ever researches a lexicon for the meaning of a Hebrew or Greek word, it will be found that the word has several meanings -- i.e., "Pneuma", which is the word translated "spirit", particularly in John 3.
You can see from the word that it represents air, the wind, etc. - Pneumatic tires, etc. From this we get "spirit" and "mind", etc -- anything with the same elusive to define and perceive qualities as air and the wind, etc.
This can be found throughout.
Check the lexicon for the word, "Commandment" - you will find "precept" among the meanings -- not quite as "commanding" as commandments.
probably check with some rabbis about Talmudic commentary on these. You will find proably a "closer to original" take on them -- I don't know.
So I'm hitting you over the head here with my rendering of the Big 10 -- I did it once -- I'll do it again. Basically from a study of the words and things -- again the YHVH comes up.
sorry for the long comment, guys.
here it is again for everyone's digesting.
The Ten Precepts
I
I, the source of all Existence; I, all Existence; I am your God. I am the one who has broken you out of Egypt, the Land of Limitations, and have taken you away, apart from the Family of Servants.
I am not placed below other gods.
II
No image of anything on the ground, in the air or in the sea can be fashioned for the purpose of worship; for finite cannot contain infinite.
I, who am all Existence, your God, am deeply possessive of you. I watch over the wrong-doings and inequities of those that hate me even to the children of the third and fourth generations. I am patient with the thousands who love me and regard my precepts with respect.
III
The nature and character of The One Who Is Existence, who is your God, cannot be arrived at easily. Be careful, therefore, if you would declare that the god that you perceive to be God is The All-Existent One. The One Who Is Existence cannot consider cleaned of carnal perceptions one who does not recognize the full nature of God.
IV
Mark that which is a period of rest. Hold it as a special time to be considered more important and dear than any other. You labor for six days. Let the seventh equate to the Rest of The All-Existent, your God. This time's purpose is not to concentrate on your accomplishments; rather, it is for contemplation of where you really are in the nature of things. Neither should you let your household nor anyone having dealings with you do so.
Since, for six seasons, All Existence was devoted to the accomplishment and maintenanance of what can perceived; then, during the seventh, there was an abstention from this; by that token, The All-Existent considers such a Rest a good thing and a source of cleansing.
V
Hold your parents in high regard, and remember your ancestry, so that you can prolong the time you stay in the land to which The All-Existent allows you to come.
VI
No person should be put to death.
VII
When you have agreed to enter into a relationship, whether with God or another person, whether in business or in intimate relationships, and have promised or contracted certain elements of that relationship, do not violate the promise, contract or other facets of the relationship. Keep your word. Do not scorn your partner and take up another relationship in violation of your contract or promise.
VIII
Taking another's possessions without that person's permission is not to be done.
IX
You should not tell lies about your friends or others with whom you associate that would do damage to them in some way
X
Be careful in your consideration of your friend or associate's property -- the house or wife or husband or any possession of that person. Do not want to get it so badly that, in getting it, you would harm that person.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 23, 2004 at 11:40 AM
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