Comments on HEY KOOKA, I WISH HELL HAD A WINDOW FOR YOU TO LOOK THROUGH...

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Re: Re: ....Red,
It amazes me how someone who does NOT believe in God, can blame Him for everything.Dont you think?

posted by onwingsoflove on May 5, 2009 at 7:57 PM | link to this | reply

Re:
Onwingsoflove, you must understand here that ZenMom was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in 2000. This is where the anger comes from against God. Even if she was a non-believer before, it has been amplified by this diagnosis. I could tell my story here but it is not appropriate at this time. Many people handle issue in their lives in different ways. It is unfortunate that ZenMom has chosen this path. May God deliver this disease from her body. I know He will one day.

posted by RedStatesMan on May 5, 2009 at 7:37 PM | link to this | reply

about Romans 1
it's concerning observations of the known society.  that was a different society than we see today.  It was quite violent and abusive.

the homosexuality observed then was on the main quite different -- if it were heterosexusl relations, it would be considered abusive and sinful because of such.

the author was addressing a different activity than the homosexual relationships extant today.

I've said this before, and others who consider homosexuality to be sin were not moved.  Neither wouild I expect you to be moved.  But that is all right.


posted by Xeno-x on April 18, 2009 at 9:06 AM | link to this | reply

onwingsoflove
I must state a few observations I have made.

You write from having drawn conclusions regarding the matters you speak of.  It is good you have such faith.  You state the matters as the Truth you believe they are.

Many others disagree with you.

You are also one in a long line of those who feel they must convert the world, or at least bear witness to your beliefs.

In holding to such solid beliefs, you express disdain for those who do not, almost to the point of being insulting.  This is not dialogue, or at least, not constructive dialogue.

Your enthusiasm for your beliefs is quite evident; but it's like a "bull in a china shop", causing unproductive discord instead of creating a foundation for productive discourse.

About Sodom and Gomorrah: 

Gen 13:13 But the men of Sodom [were] wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
yada` - the Hebrew word rendered "know" in
Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where [are] the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
meaning: 

1) to know

a) (Qal)

1) to know

a) to know, learn to know

b) to perceive

c) to perceive and see, find out and discern

d) to discriminate, distinguish

e) to know by experience

f) to recognise, admit, acknowledge, confess

g) to consider

2) to know, be acquainted with

3) to know (a person carnally)

4) to know how, be skilful in

5) to have knowledge, be wise

so the carnal part of the word is just one aspect of it.  They could have been asking to "get acquainted" with the two angels - a ruse for something else -- not necessarily a homosexual act.

Other than that, there is no indication that the sins had anything to do with homosexuality.  It is a conclusion drawn long ago by a religious figure, probably from the Middle Ages, when religion was dictated by an autocratic system that broached no opposition.

 


posted by Xeno-x on April 18, 2009 at 6:51 AM | link to this | reply

Wings, when you are civil and polite to me, I will be so back to you
If you feel I am not being polite and civil to you, you might want to look at the comments I am replying to.  When you insult me and my beliefs, I generally reply with that attitude in return.

I will once more direct you here.  In my two part comment, the second part is very civil because it is in reply to a comment you let that was not insulting me or attacking me for not sharing your beliefs.
I said:

"To you second comment:

That I will not argue with, even if I do not follow your beliefs.  You phrased the in a manner which says 'This is what I believe' without insulting those who do not agree with you.  Nothing there was any form of propaganda or misinformation, but all your own personal beliefs.  When you state such in a respectful manner, such as that second comment was, I can very much respect that and accept such as being your beliefs about such ideas.  If you can present your ideas in that fashion more often, we should be able to get along much better here."
 
It was in reply to you saying:
 
Well what do you know, we do agree on something...
I do agree with the part about praying TO the cross itself. Because the cross as an image can do nothing for anyone. But it is however a symbol of redemption, and a reminder of what Christ did for us. And anyone who worships or prays to the cross itself as a graven image is infact in the wrong. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen." God isn't a cross or a grave or a Hail Mary or anything of that nature. I do not worship the cross itself, but I will forever be thankful  that He endured such suffering, shame, and pain on it to save my soul from Hell. There is a difference between cherishing the old rugged cross and seeing it as an idol.
 
Basically you expressed your beliefs in a polite and non-insulting manner and so I replied to your comment in the same manner. If you feel I am being uncivil towards you, take a look at what you said towards me first.
 
To see this check out our first real exchange in all of this here.  I feel I was being very civil and polite and pointing out a mistake you had made. I know you disliked me using 'BS', which is still not a curse nor is in it vulgar which is why I used it instead of the actual words, but the attitude that is reflected in your reply to it clearly is uncivil towards me.  As far as I am concerned you were the one to provoke this attitude first. If you really want a civil exchange between us I am all for it.  But YOU need to be watching what you are posting and make sure that you show me and my ideas respect if that is what you wish for me to show you and your ideas.  And I do NOT consider it respectful to spread propaganda and misinformation. Please go and look up the real facts about things such as the holidays and Pagan beliefs and rituals before you start talking about them.  if you express your views about the facts of the holidays I will be fine with that, bit once you put misinformation out there I will give you the correct information in hopes that you will do the right thing.

posted by kooka_lives on April 16, 2009 at 8:42 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Hey kooka,

I won't be able to respond to your comment tonight, I will respond tomorrow though.

I was wondering if you had read my latest blog that I wrote today? It was addressed  to the atheist here on blogit. I ask the atheist to leave a comment about their decision, but so far, no atheist have commented. If you have not read it yet, I encourage you to.  I also noticed that this most recent comment of yours to me that I just read, is the most civil one you have written to me so far (not that I agree with it of course, but like I said, I'll be able to respond tomorrow about all of the reasons I DO NOT agree with you about your take on abortion being ok in some cases, because I believe murder is wrong in any case of an unborn child). And I will continue to have these "civil arguments" back and forth with you as long as the comments involve no slurs toward the Lord.(which reminds me, you stated "No Devil or God or other such junk" in your commet. I want you to know that these are the very sort of statements that make me respond to you in the way that I have in the past. Please do not provoke me.Just don't do it. And if you infact decide to ignore my request, then I won't respond to you, nor will I read your comments anymore. I will block your comments. I think I posted a VERY fair blog today to the atheist considering everything  that has been said to, and about me lately. But, if you are able to post a civil comment to me,(and refrain from degrading the Bible, the Lord, and name calling, and telling me that you think "I'm on drugs" for posting a Scripture that you did not agree with) then I will continue to try to lead you to the Lord in an equally civil way. And I know you don't necessarly "think" you want to be led to the Lord right now, and to be quite honest with you, from what you say in your comments, you sound like you may have some pride that is standing in the way of that. You could be such a witness to people if you got saved, but that is your decision.

I'll comment on my disagreement of your take on abortion tomorrow.

posted by onwingsoflove on April 16, 2009 at 7:42 PM | link to this | reply

Wings, glad to see you seem to be trying for a true exchange of ideas now
I very much understand the concept of 'age of accountability' and the ideas you present there of how you see it working.
 
The idea of them being 'exposed to sinful things' is 100% subjective.  Back in the days of the Bible you do know that it was accepted public family entertainment to watch public executions and tortures? Exposure of children to such events at that time was not considered sinful in the least.
 
There have been times when holding hands was considered sinful.  Of course eating pork and shrimp can be considered sinful.
 
Are you aware that about twenty years ago or so there was a huge jump in abortions in the Catholic community?  That is a community well know for trying to follow the logic you present here of not being exposed to 'sinful' things.  What was happening was that the young girls got it in their heads that using birth control was a deliberate sin (Basically planned out ahead of time) and that committing such sins were worse than what they viewed as a sin they committed due to necessity.  These girls were if anything overly sheltered from 'sinful things' and ended up committing the greater sins because of it.  I find that the proper exposure to 'sinful' things to be beneficial.  If you teach you child the possibilities and get them to understand that they are in control of their own actions (NO Devil of God or other such junk involved) then they will be more likely to make the right choices.  In fact the tactics you suggest about accepting Jesus seems to me to be more likely to get kids to commit 'sinful'' acts because it takes away a level of responsibility since all they have to do is accept the idea of Jesus and all will be forgiven. The ONLY thing they end up being accountable for is believe in Jesus, nothing else.  All those Catholics girls had to do was confess that they had abortions and all would end up being forgiven, because they believed in Jesus.
 
I'll not get into what is and is not 'murder' here.  I have always found it amazing at what is and is not justifiable death in the eyes of believers. However, you misunderstood what I was saying. Abortion is NOT an 'antidote' as you put it, for this nation's mistakes.  It is however a symptom of the greater ill. Due to the lack of properly educating our youth and teaching them ideas that allow them to NOT take responsibility for their actions while at the same time NOT giving them all the information they need to make truly informed decisions about their lives and their bodies, we have to have the option of abortions avaible.  When we have a segment of our population which openly treats pregnant teenagers and single women with contempt and calls them degrading names such as 'slut' and 'whore' which only serves to destroy their sense of self while and the same time opening them up to accepting abuse from those closet to them (There are far to many documented cases of young girls who got beat by their fathers or their boy friends because they got pregnant, and they allowed themselves to take such abuse and most likely would have been better off if they had gotten an abortion and been able to hide their error in judgment) we need to have extreme options available to make sure we do not fall to ruin as a society.  Now  understand I very much am aware that there are women out there who abuse this greatly and use abortions as their main form of birth control, which I am strongly against and would like to see some way to stop. It really should be just for issues in lapses of judgment where the girls is going to be better off without having to deal with negative cloud of judgment that very much does attached itself to their lives. The problem of course is that the way things have to work is that it is available for all who want it.  of course the true way to end the necessity of abortion is to focus on educating our youth correctly, openly talking about all forms of birth control, giving up the flawed concept of 'abstinence only' (Which has been proven to NOT work) and making sure they feel they have control over their lives so they end up feeling that they are responsible for their actions.  This will take a long time however, due to the extensive damage done by the sad need for so many to cling to outdated conservative ideas that have time and time again been proven to not work.
 
As a final example to you about why the ideas you presented here do not work, my wife was brought up with the ideas of keeping her away from 'sinful' influences.  You have no idea how much that messed her and her brother up.  She has made it clear how lucky she has been to have found me and that if not for finding me, due to her lack of being educated about her own body and the lack of self she had when we met, she very well could have ended up in a really bad relationship, much like the ones her mother and aunts got into. Of course all those marriage where to good Christian men.  My wife HATES her father due to all manner of things that would take far to long to write about here and feels that only one of her threes Aunts married a good man. The other two married men who had all manner of issue, including one who was truly disturbingly abusive, as he was protecting her from 'sinful' things.

posted by kooka_lives on April 16, 2009 at 3:43 PM | link to this | reply

Re:Hey kooka, I just got back from church and read your comment...

I suppose I'll not write in CAPS this time since it seems to be such a HUGE deal to everyone. Although I don't believe that you yourself have said anything about it. I'm not yelling in my typing. I just decided to leave my comments that way, I do it with everything I write almost. But anyway...

Lets focus on one thing at a time, I guess we'll go with abortion this time since thats the one I just read on your comment. I'll try to explain the "age of accountabiliy" to you that we're discussing. And I can very well explain it in a way you'll accept. But don't come at me and tell me that my statements appear to somehow be an indicator that I am "taking drugs" as you said, if you dont want me to "lash out at you" as you again said. Because I also have better things to be doing than to be told I am taking drugs and such things as that and so on, and blah blah. But anyway again,

The age of accountability does not mean that a child is better off dead than alive. And while I almost agree when you said "The more time you let your child roam this Earth, the more likely it is that your child's sould will be corrupt". Well, yes and no on that one. If a child, teenager, or whatever age, is exposed to sinful things, there is no doubt that those things will rub off on them. HOWEVER, if a child, teenager, or whatever age, is trained up in the Lord as the Bible says to do, then that child will (with hopes and prayers of the parents) will resist sin when they see it and will not involve themselves with such things.

Now the age of accountability is not a set age, such as 5, 6, 7, etc...It is different for everyone. For example, lets say John boy over here has grown up in a Christian family and has been to church and has such parents who train him in the Lord. Now lets say that Susie has parents who do not go to church, do not know the 1st thing about God or becoming a Christian. Little Susie isn't going to know what sin is or what it's not, because she has not been taught. It's not her fault she was born into a family who cared nothing for God. And if Susie died, Susie isn't going to Hell at that particular point in her life. On the other hand, back to John boy, he knows better, he's been taught, and even grew up in church, and when he sin's, he knows it. Now that's not to justify Susie's sin at all, but if you don't know something is sin, then you simply don't know its wrong. Now you know Susie's history, lets say a friend invited her to church and she went. The preacher preaches a message on salvation and what you must do to be saved, and on sin. At that point she knows she is a sinner. Let's say she rejects that truth the preacher preached. At that moment that she heard the truth she is ACCOUTABLE. If she died the next day having not accepting that truth she heard, then she would not make it to Heaven. Now the same goes for John boy over here. He has known the truth all of his life, and been to church and heard all the preaching and been disaplined by strict parents and so on. John boy may go to church with mom and dad, but if John boy doesn't accept the truth and be saved, he wouldn't make it to Heaven either. It's a matter of whether or not the Jesus is accepted by an indivdual or not. And of course an infant is not going to know what sin is (lets not be silly). Every person will give account for themselves. Every person will at some point also hear the truth. The decision to accept or decline that Jesus is Saviour is up to them. But everyone has a choice. Except the aborted babies of course, who do not know sin, nor have comitted any such thing. So aborted children are not going to Hell.

Abortion is wrong in every way, not just the "birth control form" as you spoke of. Its not the babies' fault that the mother chose to have a one night stand with some guy and get pregnant. It is not a "necessary evil" as you said. Abortion is not a "NEED" as you stated, it is MURDER. And it is one of the many abominations "Hands that shed innocent blood". How can you think that killing and chopping into pieces an innocent life, is the antidote for this nations mistakes? That makes no sense to me. So you are saying that the unborn baby becomes a sort of "whipping boy", and to shed innocent blood for the sake of somehow "fixing our society,". Murdering innocent babies won't change society. And the "doctors" who do this are nothing more than MURDERS.

And yes, life is important, and we've only one life to live. And that is why it is so important to get saved while you have the chance. Scripture says to seek him while he may be found.

posted by onwingsoflove on April 15, 2009 at 9:22 PM | link to this | reply

Well Wings, it looks like you earned at least one more reply from me
It is real easy to take the concept of 'age of accountability' and use it to back a pro-abortion stance.  By the rules you have now given me, every abortion is a GOOD thing because it is making sure those souls get into Heaven.  Since all life is supposedly is a time where we wait until we are judged by God, if we are to take what you have claimed at face value, then any time a child under the age of accountability is killed or dies then we should celebrate in knowing that the child's soul went to Heaven and that the child was never forced to risk his soul by being kept alive too long.

But I see life as having real meaning, and that we only get the one chance here on Earth to do anything. With no afterlife, that makes living life important.  Ideas such as 'Age of accountability' says life is not as important as afterlife and that there are all manner of loop hole sot get souls into Heaven.  Such ideas make life pointless and would suggest it is better to not let your children reach adulthood, let alone be born. Why take the risk that your child's soul my get corrupted and not get into Heaven. The more time you let your child roam this Earth, the more likely it is that your child's soul will get corrupted.

AS for my take on abortion, I dislike ti as a form of birth control, but due to the damage that has been done by conservative ideas in the lack of proper sex education and the proper teaching responsibility for one's actions, it is right now a necessary evil if we are to get our society on the right path. Once society as a whole is taught the right values in regards to sex and responsibility for their actions, we will see a decrease in the need for abortions.

posted by kooka_lives on April 15, 2009 at 4:54 PM | link to this | reply

Re:kooka,

i have only had time to skim a couple of paragraphs here before i have to run out.

i have no idea what you are talking about with linking "the age of accountablity" to "abortion". i HATE abortion. i depise those murders or should i say "so-called doctors" who say that a child is not a child until a certain stage in the pregnancey. so if you are saying that you are against abortion, well amen, there is one thing we agree on,

got to go ill read the rest later.

posted by onwingsoflove on April 15, 2009 at 4:06 PM | link to this | reply

Wings, Looks like I better take you seriously now, you’re underlining every

Just some friendly advice, underlining and all caps are tools and when used right, can be very effective in putting focus on certain words.  Well when you cap and underlie EVRYTHING in a piece of writing, you actually make it harder to take it seriously and lose any impact you were trying for. So I am guessing you are laughing so hard because you figured out how big of a joke you are making yourself into here.

It is good to know you are able to laugh at yourself when you see that you are being foolish.

1. Having a strong sense of self is not a problem. Form your statement it would seem you would have been happier with me if I would have never figured out there was not a God and ended up killing myself back in junior high.  Belief in God left me empty and ready to end it all.  I am ONLY alive today because I figured it out and was able to find strength in me being myself.  You seem to lack any sense of self at all, and rely on other people to tell you who you are. I really do feel sorry for you. What you do not understand at all is that having a strong sense of self is not about being selfish or thinking yourself better than others.  It is all about just knowing who you are and what is important.  If anything, a strong sense of self helps you to be humble because you do not need to put other down in order to build yourself up.

2.       You obviously are confused about how  English works.  If they were homosexual AND sinners, than that would imply the two things are NOT the same.  So unless the Bible got it wrong, there were there was sinning that was not connected to homosexual activity going on in Sodom and Gomarrah. But that really is only if you read what the Bible actually says without trying to twist it to say what you want it to say.

3.       Love to loop hole there.  Of course the logic of that loop hole justifies abortion and the killing of children by their parents before they get old enough to be guilty of sinning. I mean if I believed that my children would risk being tortured forever after they reached a certain age, I would feel it my duty out of love to release them from this mortal world and make sure they get into Heaven.  It is good to know that the death of children is always going to be a good thing, because there is no doubt they will be getting into Heaven.

4.       I said “They keep getting closer to knowing the origins of the universe thanks to their ever expanding knowledge and I am positive that they will NOT find the God of the Bible connected to any part of that”. So they won’t find God because God is NOT connected to the origin of the Universe.  Not sure what you read from that.  Of course here you are insulting scientist and still you use a computer, and most likely a phone and more than likely your life has been made far better because of the work of ‘IGNORANT SCIENTISTS WITH DEGREES’, than anything you fictitious  God or the Bible has done for you. Gotta love it when people like you shows such a lack of respect for people who really have made your life better, even if you take all of it for granted.  DO me a favor and next time you get sick and are in the hospital, tell them all that they are ignorant and that you have no faith in anything they have discovered.

5. Do you want me to consider you a mineral?  I could make comparisons of you to a brick if that will make you feel better. But in truth you are an animal and you very much run off of instinct.  In fact here you are showing the flight or fight instinct that is part of the needed survival instinct for any creature.  You are feeling threatened and so you lash back.  When a baby is born, its first instinct is to cry.  I promise you that your first instinct was also to cry.  But of course you wish to see yourself as superior to animals because you lack a sense of self and so the only way to make you feel good about being alive is to believe that all things not like you are not as worthy as you are. So this goes back toe h idea that a strong sense of self allows you to see that there is nothing wrong with being an animal and having connections to all other animals.

6. While there are toys of Yoda, it is more part of our culture now as to who he is.  You do know he was first a character in a movie. Now I know you have issue with telling fiction from reality and such, but I would like to see you show some respect for the fiction that inspires me and has inspired countless others as well as leaving an undeniable impact on our culture.  Now just because I KNOW that the fiction I like is fiction, while you embrace your fiction as if it were real, does not mean mine is any less important. If anything mine has much better lessons to each us and is not out dated.

I really am tired of this exchange.  If you have nothing of value to add, let us just drop it.  We are running in circles and I tire of wasting my time with this.  You are unable to open your mind and look at the value of differing views and you refuse to accept any facts, logic or reasoning that might disagree with the little world you wish to live in. There just is no point at all to keeping this going and I have many other things I would rather spend my time doing.

So if you reply to this and have nothing new and nothing of value to say, I will just ignore the reply and move on.  You can have the last word and feel all superior and holier than thou and whatever it is that you need to make yourself feel better.  I will only reply if you have something of value or make some new pint that needs to be addressed.

And please note that if you wish to spread propaganda and misinformation, that is the same as bearing false witness. You have already hinted that you will do such in regards to Halloween.  I more than likely already know the kinds of misinformation you will spread about that great holiday and I can tell you already, it is a batch of lies with no facts connected to it. So I ask that you avoid making a fool of yourself and look up the real facts about Halloween before you try to bad mouth it.  I will be posting my annual post that tries to educate people like you about the truth of Halloween in late September most likely. It might be worth reading if you can open you mind to the facts.

posted by kooka_lives on April 15, 2009 at 1:14 PM | link to this | reply

Re:GOOD JOB ON THIS ONE SOUL BUILDER..

posted by onwingsoflove on April 15, 2009 at 5:51 AM | link to this | reply

This is a living God and one day all shall see! sam

posted by sam444 on April 15, 2009 at 5:18 AM | link to this | reply

There is a lot going on here. From my own experiences, I know that there is a God. God is like a super-consciousness and only consciousness can relate to him. The methods of science are not those of consciousness but of physical measurement. If you use the wrong tool you get the wrong answer. The anti-God stance is social engineering. Science has not proved he doesn't exist. Neither have they proved evolutionary theory. To state otherwise is a lie. The bible can be attacked for not being an accurate, God-inspired document. Emperor Constantine commissioned it at around AD 325. This was the Sinai Bible, which is currently housed in the British museum and parts of it are online. King James had dozens of re-writers work on a new bible, which he passed on to Bacon to smooth over. So, there are many versions of the bible with few having the same content. Bible notwithstanding, the test of Christianity is if you have a consciousness relationship with God. If you do, fine. God exists outside of religion too. But, if you deny God because you have no relationship with him, it may not be that there is no God...it may be that you are not employing the tool of consciousness to ascertain his existence. That is like trying to detect electro-magnetic frequencies with no gaussmeter. You just can't! Big Bang is the theory of the initial evolution of matter. Then came the primordial seas and the evolution of amino acids and unicellular organisms. Man is not an animal though gelogically classified with mammals. Animals are governed by instinct as dictated by the autunomic nervous system. Man has a brain with free will and the capacity for advanced language forms. No species other than man can write and read, calculate or compose. Animals are very nice and have many powers and shouldn't be derogated by any label. If you don't experience God, then you may not have searched...the problem is you, not God!

posted by Soul_Builder101 on April 14, 2009 at 11:32 PM | link to this | reply

Re: ok KOOKY...

I WISH YOU COULD SEE HOW HARD I'M LAUGHING WRITE NOW. THIS COMMENT BACK TO YOU WILL BE A SHORT ONE, I'M TIRED, ITS LATE IN MY TIME ZONE. ILL MAKE A SMALL LIST OF POINTS:

  1. YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT YOUR "STRONG SENSE OF SELF". I'VE GOT NEWS FOR YOU, "SELF" IS YOUR BIGGEST PROBLEM.    
  2. HOMOSEXUALS ARE SINNERS! THOUGH NOT EVERY SINNER IS A HOMOSEXUAL.(I CAN ALMOST SMELL YOUR BRAIN SMOKIN ON THAT ONE)
  3. I DID NOT SAY THAT SMALL CHILDREN WERE GOING TO HELL, INFACT THE BIBLE SPEAKS OF THE "AGE OF ACCOUNTABLILITY" A CHILD TOO YOUNG TO KNOW WHAT SIN IS WILL INFACT NOT GO TO HELL.(STOP ALREADY WITH THE WORD TWISTING, IT'S GETTING OLD)
  4. YOU'RE ARE RIGHT ABOUT ONE THING THOUGH(HOLD ON TO YOUR SEAT!) YOU STATED THAT "SCIENTIST WILL NEVER FIND THE GOD OF THE BIBLE CONNECTED TO ANY PART OF THE BIG BANG THEORY". YOUR IGNORANT SCIENTIST FRIENDS WITH DEGREES WILL NEVER FIND SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR. I HATE TO SAY IT BUT "DUH".
  5. I AM A HUMAN, YOU MAY BE AN ANIMAL IF YOU WISH TO THINK YOU ARE, PERHAPS YOU ARE EVEN AN ALIEN, AND IF SO, THEN I WELCOME YOU TO PLANET EARTH.
  6. LASTLEY AND NOT AT ALL IMPORTANT, SORRY TO OFFEND THE MISSPELLING OF "YODA" I DONT COLLECT THE TOYS.

posted by onwingsoflove on April 14, 2009 at 9:31 PM | link to this | reply

Wings, you really lack understanding of so many things
First off, man IS an animal.  Unless you think we are plants, or maybe minerals? Obviously you really do not understand science at all.  MAN IS AN ANIMAL and there is NO doubt at all about that.  It ahs nothing to do with evolution and everything to do with simple FACT on this one.

There is no REAL proof that homosexuality is wrong. The Bible DOES NOT count as real proof.  And you clearly did not understand my reply last time you tried to go this direction.  According to the Bible Sodom and Gomarrah were destroyed because they had SINNERS and HOMOSEXUALS living there.  Since the Bible CLEARLY separates the two things as being different, we have to assume that something beyond homosexual practices were going on there.  Of course such only applies if one actually pays attention to what the Bible really says and NOT what some religious nut-jobs who wish to twist the Bible to allow them to defend their narrow minded, bigoted anti-homosexuals views.

Also, I am familiar with Romans chapter 1, but I tried to get you to understand that it is meaningless to me and that your over use of the Bible to try and prove you points does not work in this.  First thing you need to do is prove that the Bible is actual truth./  Just because it is in the Bible does NOT make it fact.

You’ve yet to prove me wrong on anything here. I keep providing actual forms of real proof to back up ever claim I make.  You keep running around in circles saying ‘It is in the Bible’ as if that were some form of proof.  The Bible can ONLY be used in context of saying ‘These are my beliefs.  Please stop trying to claim that your beliefs somehow can magically becomes proof.  It DOES NOT work that way in the real world.

Your church, like all others, is going to teach the Bible the way THEY think it should be taught.  You have already shown me that you lack the understanding of what the Bible REALLY says. Do you even know that eh Bible shows Noah being a abusive, alcoholic father?  DO I need to go into how silly and ridiculous you sounded in trying to justify why your lack of understanding of the Bible is somehow a better understanding that my actually studying the Bible with an open mind?   I clearly understand what the stories in the Bible are actually saying than you do.  You can only see the stories with rose colored glasses and so you see in them what you want to see in them so that they fit into what you want them to be.

It seems like I have to repeat myself to you over and over again because you just are not even trying to get it.  You don’t listen to what I am saying, because you are unable to open your mind and see beyond you safe little world.  Everything you keep coming up with, I have already been presented in the past by other believers who have had the same limits to their understanding that you clearly have.  I have given all these ideas a fair chance and thought about them and have always found them lacking, while you clearly are not going to give any new ideas presented to you a chance.

And you continue to show yourself as being far from humble in our exchanges here. But that is very often a blindness of believers.  They somehow thing they are humble by putting others who do not share their beliefs down.  Most of this is due to the simple fact that your views are not going to hold up against a person who has strong sense of self.  So in order for you to get people to see any value in your beliefs, you have to destroy their sense of self in order to try and replace it with what you believe.  That is how brainwashing works after all.  Those like you find me hard to deal with because I have too strong a sense of self for you to handle.  You keep trying for the personal attacks and degrading and they just don’t work, so you get mad and try to discredit my ideas instead. And here you admit to having been brain washed in such a manner.

Check my blog out when you get the chance.  I’ll find repost the one about how atheism saved me from ruin.   when I get the chanceIf I had not became an atheist, chances are I would have taken my life back in Junior High because belief in God left me empty with no sense of self at all.  I am glad that I realized there was no God when I did, or I would have really been in bad shape.

And then you had to go back to the childish scare tactics about Hell.  I am not worried about being ‘saved’ because I know there is no Hell.

If you think Christians are above recording death bed confession of atheist, then you really do not understand just what levels some Christians will sink to. Have you heard of Hell Houses? Sick little plays put on by churches to try and scare people into belief in God by using pure propaganda, misinformation and out right lies.  If these people got the chance to record an atheist doing the death bed conversion and posting it everywhere, you can bet you life savings they would with out a second thought.  The reason there are no links to such thing is because IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.  Even if they were not able to taped it and such events did happen, it WOULD Be documented by someone.  You will find NO documentation out there because it just DOES NOT HAPPEN.   And yes, there are youtube videos of people on their death beds.  Everything is on youtube.

I am still waiting for you to accept the truth myself. I have not lied to you once in any of our exchanges and all of what I present to you is either proven FACT or my views on things, which I will openly state are my views. You are the one who has kept defending unproven propaganda and event which I have researched and know for  a FACT are untrue. You need to wake up here and accept some truths which might upset you and hopefully get you to think and see things for how they really are.

 Then we get into you heaven non-sense where you show just how unhumble you really are. You really do like to go on about how great those who believe as you do are and how they are so favored by God, while those like me are too foolish and unworthy. You can have your little pipe dream of Heaven, I don’t want it.  There is NOTHING in the concept of Heaven that appeals to me in the least.  The more you try to sell it to me, the least appealing it sounds.  It still sounds like you need a full frontal lobotomy to be able to enjoy it, and now it is a private club only for those who have gone and followed the same path to salvation that you have followed. Of course the sickest part of all that is that if we go by your logic, God is sending countless innocent children to Hell because they have no been born again as you have.  Would you really feel good living for ever knowing that so many innocent children are suffering eternally in Hell because they just never got the chance to be saved?

There is no proof at all of Hell, or Heaven.  All you have is what the Bible says and your interpretation of that. All that is is proof of NOTHING at all. You mindless care tactics don’t prove a thing.  I could swear I already told you that though.  You really don’t listen very well at all. I have always found it amusing that somehow after you die and are of the spirit, that you will somehow experience physical pain. I mean how sick does God have to be to create a new body for you just to punish you?  It is a very disturbing God you wish to believe in.

“Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." It is clear what the verse means.  You seem to not understand what it say, but a six year old could tell you that it says you don’t leave your house on the Sabbath, which would mean that going to church on the Sabbath (Which one would need to  leave their house to do) is wrong.  To find any other meaning for that WOULD BE twisting it to say something it does not say. You need to reread I think, because you clearly have not gotten it. And it seems really clear to me what it says.  I don’t believe in the Bible, so I don’t have to worry about what I do on the Sabbath, even though if one is to follow the actual idea of seven says, that Sabbath would most likely be Saturday anyway, which changes a lot of this issue itself.

And back to the your superiority complex and scare tactics yet again. That was old several posts ago  and yet you still fall back to it every chance you get.  Don’t you have anything of substance to provide.  Or is the threat of Hell the only thing you can come up with?

I have no problem with you believing in the Bible. Believe it or not. The problem is that you are trying to use that belief as proof.  It is NOT proof.

Go here and read you second comment on that page and then look at what I had to say about it.  There you got it right.  You said what was of your beliefs and did not try to present anything as being fact that was not proven to be so, and you did it without insulting anyone else beliefs.  That I can respect. The problem is you keep trying to claim everything you believe is somehow truth, and too often you have tried to defend stuff that I CAN prove is not true as being true, just because you wish to believe it to be so.

The “I must decrease and he must increase” line is NOT humble, but degrading.  I have already learned that power of having a strong sense of self in life.  If someone needs you to decrease yourself in order for them to increase themselves, then that person is sick and selfish.  I increase myself best by helping others to increase themselves.

And you very much choose bits and pieces of the Bible to follow, and then you twist what you do decided to follow in order to make sure it fits with how you have been told to view the world.  This exchange between us has very much shown me that time and time again.

And then you go with another attempt at the scare tactic.  Seriously it ain’t’ gonne work and just gets sillier and sillier every time you use it. I know already, you think I am going to Hell.  You really come off like a broken record with how much you repeat that nonsense.

Do you understand what ‘theories’ are?  Do you understand anything at all about how science works? I think you might need to look up what the word ‘theory’ means.  You do know about the theory of gravity right? Or the theory of relativity? If you understood how theories and science work, then you would understand just how foolish what you just said was.

I am guessing you meant ‘Yoda status’ not ‘Yota status’, which makes only a little more sense.  I am assuming that you were just going for a personal attack there because you had decided not try the scare tactics again.  Because you do understand that I did not take my ‘about me’ page here very seriously at all. I made it into one big joke that you seem to be taking far too seriously.

If you understood what eh Big Bang theory really was, then you would NOT have connected it to evolution. They are two unconnected areas of science.  And science is always changing, not because they don’t have a clue (That is religion you are thinking of there), but because they keep open minds and are able to learn new things and grow and understand the universe better at every turn. They keep getting closer to knowing the origins of the universe thanks to their ever expanding knowledge and I am positive that they will NOT find the God of eh Bible connected to any part of that.

Form what I have been seeing I am worried that this exchange is upsetting you.  There is a lot of anger coming through in your replies to me.  Are you sure you wish to keep this exchange going? You seem unable to handle views and ideas that do not fit into the little world you wish to confine yourself to.

posted by kooka_lives on April 14, 2009 at 8:58 PM | link to this | reply

Re: TO ZEN MOM...
FIRST OF ALL, I WRITE IN CAPS BECAUSE I CHOOSE TOO. I COULD CARE LESS WHAT I "APPEAR" LIKE TO YOU. IM NOT IN ANY WAY WORRIED ABOUT "YOU". I ONLY CARE WHAT GOD THINKS OF ME. BY THE WAY, ARE YOU REALLY A MOTHER AS YOU SCREEN NAME IMPLIES? IF SO, I FEEL FOR YOUR CHILDREN. AND IM A CHRISTIAN BECAUSE THE LORD HAD ENOUGH MERCY ON ME TO SAVE ME, NOT BECAUSE SOMEONE IN MY FAMILY WAS A CHRISTIAN. BEING SAVED IS A PERSONAL THING. ILL NOT GIVE ACCOUNT FOR ANYONE ELSE, AS NO ONE ELSE WILL GIVE ACCOUNT FOR MY LIFE. AND ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE YOU METIONED IN ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES WONT GO TO HELL BECAUSE OF WHERE THEY LIVE, THEY'LL GO TO HELL BECAUSE THEY REJECTED CHRIST. AND EVERYONE HAS THAT CHOICE. THERE ARE CHRISTIANS IN ALL COUNTRIES THAT HAVE BEEN CONVERTED FROM WHATEVER god IT WAS THEY WORSHIPED. THEY ACCEPTED THE TRUTH IN THE COUNTRY THEY WERE IN. AND MY GOD IS SPELLED WITH A CAPITAL G, NOT A LOWERCASE ONE, FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE. ARE YOU INTO WORSHIPING STATUES OR SOMETHING? ARE YOU A BUDDIST? OR DO YOU JUST WORSHIP YOURSELF?

posted by onwingsoflove on April 14, 2009 at 8:35 PM | link to this | reply

I hope Kooka ignores you. Your post causes you to appear ignorant. (No one writes in ALL CAPS.)

The Christian faith is simply impossible to accept as fact as so many bloggers here attempt to do each day. It is based on concepts formulated many centuries ago by men who believed the earth was flat and that heaven was “up there”. 

I wish you would open (and read) a book other than the bible. If you could open your mind, you would be forced to admit that the only reason you are Christian is because your parents were before you.

Had you been born in Cairo you would be a Muslim and you would blog about Muhammad. Had you been born in Jerusalem, you would be Jew and blog about Yahweh being God and the Torah, God’s word. Had you been born in Calcutta you would be a Hindu and blog about the Vedas. Had you been born in Peking you would blog about the teachings of Buddha or Lao-Tse.

If you had been unfortunate enough to be born in today’s Iran or Pakistan, you would be rocking back and forth while reciting text from the Quran and witnessing  the repression of women under the auspices of the Taliban.

Born thousands of years ago, you would be worshipping Jupiter or Sutekh (the  god of the entire Nile valley).  You might be worshipping Thor………….Isis…….Melek………Osiris or Baal (to name only a few). Had you been born five hundred years ago,  it would be Huitzilopochtli or his brother Tezcatilpoca you would worship. These were all gods of extreme importance………….gods of civilized peoples……….worshipped and believed in by millions.

But, by CHANCE……..a roll of the dice…..you are here today, in the United States, blogging about your silly  Christian god. One day your god will also be HISTORY.

 

 

posted by ZenMom on April 14, 2009 at 8:21 PM | link to this | reply