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Xeno-x, What a great discussion! I will hit on the one
Hot-button issue I know something about: inner-city education.
1. The axiom that "money is not a solution" is false, because never have we ponied up in comparable amounts to districts like E. St. Louis, South Chicago, SC L.A. Never.
2. Many of my students are African-born. By staying away from lecture, whole-group direct instruction, to a one, they have all excelled in reading and writing. Using colorful content-area vocabularies, on-grade level readers, below-grade level primers, computer tutorials, Google! and library books and magazines, I have created a quiet study zone in an atmosphere of conflict (middle school).
Many of our new Americans from many countries thrive under this method. I have blogged about it.
We need to stop dumbing down the curriculum, and start more individuation among inner-city teens. I can't even keep up with how fast they learn in my class - much less to try and assess it with pre and post tests!
posted by
kingmi
on May 25, 2008 at 9:33 PM
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Re: Re: THE CONS DON'T GET IT -- THEY MAINTAIN THE STANCE THAT HAS BEEN
RSM -- you just have proven my point.
not a word about the problem
just attaching labels
you don't see the hundreds of millions of people that hate the U.S.
of course you label liberals haters because they want to point out the flaws in the conservative stance.
typical conservative strategy -- don't respond to the statements, give it an adverse label. This has been the same from the Reagan years -- use faulty rhetoric to silence the opposition.
What I want, and what a lot of people want, is to see a change in policy that will win the U.S. friends instead of making enemies. I have said that Rev. Wright is not the only person with such thoughts -- there is a huge segment of our society that feels the same way.
Now, you are stereotyping Mr. Cosby by lumping him in with any entertainers that I have referred to when I have said that I agree with his stance.
Amazing how you get it wrong.
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 11, 2008 at 2:59 PM
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Re: THE CONS DON'T GET IT -- THEY MAINTAIN THE STANCE THAT HAS BEEN
That is your whole plan isn't it? To sum it up on Jesus. To use Jesus to prove some pathetic liberal crap is worthless, then again your political thogut is worthless. There is plenty words in the Bible to combat the worthless claims that Jesus would advocate irresponsibility.
So funny that you suck up to a hater. A hater like Wright. Funny how liberals always remind us that it is 2008 and the ideology has changed but yet they are still hanging on to 1865. Funny how the liberals feel like it is time for Iraq to stand on its' own but yet still blame society for the ills of the black race. Geez, STOP CONTRADICTORING YOURSELF! You comes across as a what you truly are and that is a fool! Gee, how in the hell did Mr. and Mrs. Obama becomes millionaires? I guess it was just luck! Then what is your problem then Xeno? Why aren't you a millionaire running for office? What kind of excuse do you have? What is the fault of society why you did not become rich? Give me your best Marxists statement. C'mon, I know you are full of that crap!
You have already said that "I am wrong about Bill Cosby" in sighting that he is in the entertainment field. So does this make his feelings not relative? Just another liberal contradiction. Your ilk is full of contradcitions. That is what makes you wrong about everything. Stop embarrassing yourself, brush your hair out, go smoke another joint and listen to your Willie Nelson album okay?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on May 10, 2008 at 10:22 PM
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Xeno-x...where you say "Blacks are ghettoized" and all that follows...
You are so right. I was at a meeting for a community organization to which I belong, and after the business was handled some of the members were discussing education. A middle-aged white woman actually said that people living in the inner cities just aren't capable of learning the things that students from more affluent communities are. THIS WAS 2 WEEKS AGO IN NE OHIO. Even in a community that pushes early college programs--attended by nearly all black, inner-city students--this attitude is very much still alive.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on May 8, 2008 at 1:11 PM
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Re: Alan Keyes is a nut.
Here Here.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on May 8, 2008 at 1:00 PM
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Re: RedStatesman - posted by Growler
Growler, you reminded me of something I have experienced.
First, racial bias still exists considerably in the White Community -- because I am white, I am privy to statements and conversations.
Secondly, just look around any major city. Blacks are ghettoized, kept in areas, by several means, one thing is that they seem to prefer to. Secondly, the lesser quality housing is what is available to them. Because of this, the White Community seems to have this "out of sight, out of mind". mentality. Because of this, many Blacks lack opportunity to change their lives.
Many have, though. Let's put that out there. Mr. Obama is an example of success, as are others.
What I remember, though, is in 1968. An older Black man worked as custodian for the colleg cafeteria. The white supervisor continually called him, "boy", which we all knokw what that means.
These attitudes still persist. Why do you think Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms kept their congressional seats. Old attitudes die hard.
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 5, 2008 at 6:14 AM
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RedStatesman
It may not be 1868, but you can not say that there aren't people on earth who don't know what it was like. History is passed on from generation to generation. Or at least it should be.
My father may not have been a slave. But when he was growing up in rural Maryland if a white man wanted him to do something his parents had little choice but to have him and my uncles do it. Nevermind what had to be done on their own farm. No questions asked. Same with my mother and other relatives. The old folks said that on Sundays, the white families would get together and plan out who would get what blacks to do which jobs during the week. Since most of the blacks were living on white man's land what choice did they have? Do you think it's coincidence that farming is all but a thing of the past or is it because the free help is no longer available? My father was a sharecropper before he was able to buy his own farm and that was only by sheer luck and circumstance.
My parents, aunt's and uncles went to segregated schools. My grandmother had to quit school at age 12 to go work in the fields. They, and many of the people who held them back, are still alive. I went to school with many a slave owners grandchildren and listened to their racist remarks. Where did they get those beliefs from? I read the section on Slavery in the World Book Encyclopedia when I was a kid and it talked about how slavery was a GOOD thing. This was in the 1970's. WHAT?
My father showed me the house that my great grandmother(born in 1880 by the way) lived in. It was no bigger than your kitchen. A window on each side. A dirt floor. Cold and drafty. I'm sure you've seen one or two. Let me tell you how it felt to be inside it. Eerie. I did not feel at all like a human being. I felt like a caged animal. By the way, in Jacksonville, Fl. there are still houses that size only they have utilities. My great grandmother lived to be 102. My grandmother is 91 and she lived through a lot of cruelty.
Now, as far as calling Obama a racist, you don't know him well enough to say that or judge him on it. I have friends, white and black, who have made racist remarks and have racist beliefs as I said before. That doesn't mean that I agree with them and I'm not going to disown them as friends, because their good outweighs their bad. Their actions speak louder than their words. My best friends father is a white racist from up north. I've heard him lie about it IN CHURCH! And the man was practicing for the priesthood at one time. I don't like him and my best friend knows it. And he knows why. But we are still tight. If I judged him by his father we wouldn't be on speaking terms.
Everyone has faults. And there are many people who don't believe in what their Reverend's preach. I hear it every Sunday from my own family. You're making Obama guilty by association just as your making Rice, Keys and Cosby innocent in the same way and that's not right in my opinion. The only way to know a person is to KNOW them.
This is one of the biggest problems with the races today. Like I said before, whites don't want to report the history correctly. They all think that it was soooo long ago when it really wasn't.
If you don't believe me, I'll introduce you to my sixtysome year old illiterate, white neighbor who still thinks that he is better than every black man alive. It's how he was raised.
posted by
growler
on May 4, 2008 at 5:38 PM
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Well put xeno-x. It's not about the past alone but the present as well
posted by
Straightforward
on May 3, 2008 at 8:49 PM
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Alan Keyes is a nut.
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 3, 2008 at 8:45 PM
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THE CONS DON'T GET IT -- THEY MAINTAIN THE STANCE THAT HAS BEEN
the source of the problem.
And it is obvious that they haven't lived where they are set to the side and ignored.
Where until within the lifetimes of most of us, discrimination reigned throughout our country.
Education and opportunities have been and still are limited.
No one seems to want to address the problems because this is a mostly invisible and silent segment of society. Power is what is respected, and these people have very little. Corporate America, on the other hand . . .
When someone speaks out, then they are castigated as Rev. Wright is. It's the mentality of criticizing those who challenge the status quo. The boss is the boss, after all. You see, you have to be the silent Negro.
Yes, he has made some outrageous statements. The odd thing is, I can read many conservative bloggers here who make statements as outrageous, and yet all the cons fall right in step and laud their unreasonableness.
RSM, you are wrong about my opinion of Bill Cosby's ideas. Too many of the young seem to espouse irresponsibility, primarily those in positions of prominence in the entertainment field. Still, you are not that much in contact with the African-American Community, it would seem. I have been in close contact for several decades, have seen firsthand how many of the myths associated with Blacks and welfare and such are so untrue, as are the myths you are stating.
You have read some notes here from the African-American perspective, and yet you ignore them. But isn't that the norm? Ignore the problem and place the blame on the victims. Shove the problem to the side, out of sight, out of mind, and criticize those who would raw attention to the problem.
But then again, this is why Rev. Wright has spoken out -- this is why we are hated throughout the world and within our own borders.
Odd that you good Christians fail to follow the precepts of Jesus.
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 3, 2008 at 8:44 PM
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Re: GlennB
For my 47 year old white conservative Republican southern man self, I must say that worthless individuals come in all races. I have had black people treat me better than some whites. I truly feel that this is not at all a race issue. It is all a liberal vs. conservative thought process issue. It has always been interesting to me that you never see the black race get excited over Alan Keyes or Dr. Condi Rice or J.C. Watts or even the recent words of Bill Cosby. No this is not where we see everyone congregating.
On May 6, our North Carolina primary election will take place. I will proudly walk into my polling station and cast my vote for Alan Keyes. This will be the 4th time, over the years, I have voted for the black man named Alan Keyes. My great great uncles fought for the Confederacy. My great great grandfather owned slaves and their graves are still on his land. Yet, in 2008, as I vote for yet another black candidate, I continue to see the contradiction of the worthless left. It is always society's fault. It is always the white man's fault. Yet, I hear the words of Bill Cosby and I realize that he is simply reciting the words that this nation was founded upon. Yet, I see the Reverend Wright making mindless statements about blacks think with the opposite side of the brain as do whites. Is he saying that blacks are not created equal to whites? Where does this nut case get his beliefs? Please do not tell me again that Obama who said that Wright was his "mentor" was unaware of the reverends' beliefs. That is a lie. Voting for Obama would be no different than me voting for David Duke. Racism is racism.
I support the likes of Keyes, Watts, Rice and Cosby. Why? Because they believe as I do. Obama could not further than what I believe in. His reverend is full of hate. It is 2008 not 1868. It is way pass the time to move on. There are no blacks or whites here on earth today who know what it was like back then.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on May 3, 2008 at 8:15 PM
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GlennB
The question that has to be asked is this. What is the cause of his approach and anger? My feeling is that though he may not be doing it in the right way, he is DOING it. This anger will emerge if people don't want to admit their faults and mistakes and discuss ways to avoid them. America has to stop all of this "holier than thou" stuff. Many people in our country have done many bad things to many people, home and abroad.
On another note, I don't recall him saying that black people blame society for their actions though he may have. Most of the black people that I know simply want whites to know that we don't look at our country in the same way that you do. We come from different backgrounds and have different histories. And let's not forget that blacks only gained some kind of equality 40 to 50 years ago. That's not long enough for things to completely change. There are too many people still on earth set in their ways, black and white. We all know people who are against interracial dating and marraige. We all know people who have moved out of neighborhoods because they were becoming "too black". Most of us have stereotypes of blacks and whites. That's standard in this country.
I will say this once, I'll say it again. ALL of my black teachers held me to a higher standard than my white teachers. Because they knew that we had to do more to succeed. For whatever reason, I don't think it's that way now. This was one of the things that Bill Cosby was trying to get across. White people will help black people, but as the old saying goes, "People are more willing to help those who help themselves?"
Whatever Rev. Wright says, the bottom line in this country is this. Whites are the heavy majority. Whites own it. Whites run it. And whites write the history of it. This will NEVER change. African-Americans know this and it doesn't stop most of us from living our lives. Happily, I might add. All that we want is for the history to be written CORRECTLY.
posted by
growler
on May 3, 2008 at 6:05 PM
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Growler,
Waving unprovoked allegation around does not solve a problem! Rev. Wright was wrong in the delivery of his message! We have to move pass him and his insanity!
posted by
Glennb
on May 3, 2008 at 10:10 AM
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Xeno-x,
I am one who wanted Rev. Wright to come forward and defend his Sermons! It is after he exposed himself as a fool that I became enraged at his message! His protestation that "Politicians lie and Preachers don't" closed the issue for me. Rev. Wright obviously fooled a lot of people around this Nation! There were people ready to begin this so-called dialogue on Race in America! Rev. Wright set us back a thousand years, because first you have disown his foolishness!
posted by
Glennb
on May 3, 2008 at 10:06 AM
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Society's Fault Again!?
The "it is society's fault" lame excuse is something that has been a cornerstone of worthless liberals for many years. NEWS BREAK - THE SOCIETY'S FAULT EXCUSE HAS LONG AGO BEEN EXPIRED! This ole crap is such nonsense.
Let me ask you, what are you doing to help? Please do not claim to be doing anything that you are not, then again you are liberal so you can not help but lie.
It would be interesting to know your personal thoughts about Bill Cosby's ideas about the plight of the black race. Of course, I already know your response to that. Bill Cosby preaches RESPONSIBILITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You preach the same ole liberal hippie 60's crap about it all being society's fault.
WHEN WILL YOU EVER GROW UP AND REALIZE WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON, YOU FOOL!?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on May 2, 2008 at 9:47 PM
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Pathetic Fools You Are!
The Reverend Wright, if he deserves that title, has now claimed that blacks think with the opposite side of their brain and apparently this is yet another idiot liberal who blames something else for the pitfalls they have endured. And most of you are eating this bull up like it is the best food you have ever tasted. Give me a freaking break! So I guess the Reverend Wright is saying that blacks are not created equal to whites. What kind of crap is this? You liberal idiots are so damn contradictory. Just lock you in a room and you would argue with yourself! There is no hope for anyone who agrees with Wright or Obama Hussein!
posted by
RedStatesMan
on May 2, 2008 at 8:10 PM
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The Problem
is that everyone wants to shoot the messenger instead of listening to the messege. As an African-American man I have heard my people say many of the things that Reverend Wright said. For my entire life. And I'm 40.
Here is another thing. Everyone is downing Barack Obama for being associated with Reverend Wright when the Bush family and their cronies have been associated with known terrorists for YEARS. Osmam Bin Laden among them. But no one wants to talk about that. Do they? Now, who would you rather have your President associated with? A Reverend who hasn't killed anyone or a group of business partners who have killed many?
posted by
growler
on May 2, 2008 at 7:41 PM
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mysteria
it's dangerous
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 1, 2008 at 7:23 PM
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yes... a lot of things need to be said that remain taboo
some things especially but sheesh, i dunno if the person exists that has the stones to admit to and speak about what's REALLY going on...
posted by
mysteria
on May 1, 2008 at 3:38 PM
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I thought Rev Wright had a lot of insightful things to say, things that need to be said.
posted by
jmh256
on April 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM
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