Comments on Doesn't Being Objective Presume Listening to ALL Sides?

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Thanks Justi. I shall write soon.

posted by JanesOpinion on July 23, 2006 at 9:39 AM | link to this | reply

Jane's Congratulations tell us about it soon.

posted by Justi on July 22, 2006 at 12:57 PM | link to this | reply

zoke, thanks for jumping into the frey.

I don't agree with your generalization, though, and you obviously missed the point of my article.

posted by JanesOpinion on July 22, 2006 at 9:11 AM | link to this | reply

LeRoy, I agree. Green house gasses are not ALL bad . . . .

All sorts of things grow in the tropics, eh?

posted by JanesOpinion on July 22, 2006 at 9:11 AM | link to this | reply

R_I, loved your comments. I think Gore needs a little more than just an

ice block though (it would seem that global warming hasn't thawed him a whole lot, eh?).

posted by JanesOpinion on July 22, 2006 at 9:10 AM | link to this | reply

my word. I leave Blogit for a few days, and come back to only to find

some really great comments! Thanks, guys, for stopping by. I may have trouble getting back to all of you, but will do my best.

News flash! I have a new job (haven't started full time), and will have a 10 minute commute one way vs a 45 minute commute. How's that for saving on a little fuel. JanesO is stoked!

posted by JanesOpinion on July 22, 2006 at 9:09 AM | link to this | reply

Jane's

I don't have time right now to say more than you are not off the mark! I have to go see to some problems at one of my my oil wells.

posted by Justi on July 21, 2006 at 4:20 PM | link to this | reply

Most scientists are in agreement

that global warming is happenning. The only people that don't believe it are the Bush Administration and the right wingers who own the oil fields.

posted by zoke on July 20, 2006 at 8:09 AM | link to this | reply

oh boy, the global warming paraniods will be having a field day...

I heard this a.m. that so far for 2006 we are "above normal" temp wise, and July is setting new records...throw Al Gore a block of ice to cool down with.....:)

posted by Rumor on July 19, 2006 at 3:58 PM | link to this | reply

Global you-know-what

Janes, you point is right on the money. In fact, I had a proff at my university who argued that we could not feed our huge population without the extra greenhouse gass helping the crops out. The benefits of global warming? I guess it's going to be the title of my next post. Hope you're enjoying that short commute.

posted by LeRoyCoyote on July 19, 2006 at 12:39 PM | link to this | reply

I think I'd go with gasoline prices for third.......

posted by Corbin_Dallas on July 18, 2006 at 6:28 PM | link to this | reply

Good point, kingmi, and oh so true!

posted by JanesOpinion on July 18, 2006 at 6:20 PM | link to this | reply

JanesO, I can't understand what liberals get out of making this a political

issue. Voters are going to vote their safety from bombs going off first, their wallets 2nd, and the environment third every time.

posted by kingmi on July 17, 2006 at 11:12 PM | link to this | reply

Yeah Offbeats, "clouded" was a good word choice!!!

posted by JanesOpinion on July 17, 2006 at 5:47 PM | link to this | reply

WritersBlok, but my take is that even with global warming

there are differing perspectives, and one should still be as objective as possible even if one has a more liberal bent (or conservative, for that matter!).

posted by JanesOpinion on July 17, 2006 at 5:46 PM | link to this | reply

Ah, FMW, thanks for clarifying!

I obviously did not catch the irony in your voice. I'll have to listen better next time.

posted by JanesOpinion on July 17, 2006 at 5:45 PM | link to this | reply

A journalist's role is to report the news

and global warming is very topical!

posted by WritersBlok on July 17, 2006 at 4:43 PM | link to this | reply

For the record, I was being ironic. You may very well find love of God

at Bob Jones University, love of country at Annapolis, and love of truth most everywhere, but I don't think they are core values at any institution of higher learning. The true core value would have to be love of raising the tuition.

posted by FreeManWalking on July 17, 2006 at 10:30 AM | link to this | reply

Janes

I didn't see the program, but heard about it. Guess there is no need to wait for repeat if it is clouded with an agenda!!

posted by Offy on July 17, 2006 at 7:46 AM | link to this | reply

Blanche01, I think that's a great idea --- NAMI.

People who've experienced what you have and who have been able to overcome or successfully work through their difficulties really make wonderful advocates. You will do well with that, of this I am certain!

As well, we do have differing perspectives, yet so much in common, in particular a desire to help people and to make the system better.

Have a great week! (And yes, I enjoy talking with YOU, too!)

posted by JanesOpinion on July 16, 2006 at 5:39 PM | link to this | reply

Nautikos, I think FMW is likely reflecting on his time in the military.

There I'm betting one seems more love for God and country at the very least. And I would venture to guess that he has carried over that perspective to academe which, well, let's just say if he goes to University he may very well be very disappointed.

Enjoyed talking with you, Nautikos!

posted by JanesOpinion on July 16, 2006 at 5:36 PM | link to this | reply

Jane, Blanche et al,

I must tell you that I am intimately acquainted with the halls of academe, and that FMW's statement is indeed very funny. He mentions love of God, country and truth...well, there certainly isn't any love of God, there may occasionally be love of country, (although in forms that may not be easily recognizable as such), and there is actually more love of truth than is generally assumed...but there are also, in some disciplines, massive political agendas, generally those of the Left...

posted by Nautikos on July 16, 2006 at 5:04 PM | link to this | reply

JanesOpinion, yes, my degree, BA, is in Russian language.

That seems many moons ago, almost 20 years, inspired by my own heritage, my grandfather. I got fed up to the teeth with agendas being crammed down my throat, of all stripes. When I went to an orientation for a MSW last winter, I looked around the room, of 200 people, and listened to the speeches on "making a difference in the world" and "social justice" and thought, "but what about solving one problem at a time, the obvious ones, like actually doing what social workers are supposed to do, not making a political statement". I agree, the system is out of whack.

I think where we disagree, you and I, is how the system has become so disturbed. I am currently pursuing a certification for NAMI, which I'm sure you're acquainted with, to become an advocate for the mentally ill, a group which badly needs advocacy, the social attitudes need adjusting.

posted by Blanche. on July 16, 2006 at 2:25 PM | link to this | reply

Thanks Blanche. But yes, I do see your point.

Especially in the liberal arts (isn't your degree in Russian?). It was easier for me to go back for my master's since it was in more of a science field but even then I had some fascinating conversations with my professors.

posted by JanesOpinion on July 16, 2006 at 2:19 PM | link to this | reply

Truthfully, Janes, you may be right

I was disappointed in my own search for truth and learning in the universities I've been to, and I declined to go back for a Masters for that very reason. I can not subvert years of my own observations, rational thinking and common sense to anyone's agenda, much to my own detriment at times. Good point, and touche' to you as well!

posted by Blanche. on July 16, 2006 at 2:16 PM | link to this | reply

Ha ha Blanche01, I think not.

Touche!

However, I guess I do for some strange reasons have higher expectations of them. You know -- professors, learned folk, with the desire to know the truth in all fields of study, no matter where it may take them . . . .

posted by JanesOpinion on July 16, 2006 at 2:13 PM | link to this | reply

As opposed to whom, JanesO? Are professors or academics any more

polemic or politicized than say your average blogger?

posted by Blanche. on July 16, 2006 at 2:10 PM | link to this | reply

Blanche01, I'd love to agree with you there, but fear I cannot.

There truly are some wonderful professors who DO love God, country , learning and truth -- but there seem to be many more with a different and more negative agenda. I'm sure the majority do have a love of learning, but so often when their findings don't agree with their political/social agenda -- they make a choice that is not based in the truth of their research.

posted by JanesOpinion on July 16, 2006 at 2:04 PM | link to this | reply

FreeManW, I would concur with the others that I do find some humor in

your observation as to the core values of professors and academia. That has not been my experience or observation. I have found a great deal of pessimism and synicism in academia, as well as a significant lack of objectivity. Perhaps your experiences have been more positive? That would be nice!

posted by JanesOpinion on July 16, 2006 at 2:01 PM | link to this | reply

JanesO, might I just add one tiny little thing?

Freemanwalking's statement about "love of God and truth in academia" does not strike me as funny, sarcastic or ironic. He was being truthful. Where is the joke in that. And Sarooster, shame on you, you used to like him as BillyCargo. How quickly things change.

posted by Blanche. on July 16, 2006 at 1:59 PM | link to this | reply

Gee wiz, guys, but I leave for a few hours and find my post taken over . .

. . . by a good bunch of guys! Thanks for your comments.

posted by JanesOpinion on July 16, 2006 at 1:59 PM | link to this | reply

sarooster,

I agree, but I didn't want to go there...

posted by Nautikos on July 16, 2006 at 1:55 PM | link to this | reply

That "core" values thing FreeManWalking said about "Academia"

has to be one of the funniest things I have read in quite a long time!!!!!!!!!!!

posted by sarooster on July 16, 2006 at 1:24 PM | link to this | reply

Jane,

excellent post! Without getting into the minutiae of the debate being carried out here by all these eminent climatologists, there is only one thing that scientists pretty well agree on: the Earth is getting warmer! (And, I would argue, the evidence is so plainly obvious that it doesn't require a PhD in climatology to determine that.) The reasons for this trend on the other hand, have not moved much beyond the phase of theory.

However, no less a 'professional skeptic' than Michael Shermer relates how becoming familiar with recent evidence made him change his mind. (Scientific American, June 2006.) Among other things, he mentions a rather drastic rise in CO2 levels, from 180 parts per million (ppm) during the last ice age [you can get that by taking core samples from glaciers], to 280 ppm by the time of the Industrial Revolution, to 380 ppm today, and projected to rise to 450-550 ppm by the end of the century. (This is from Tim Flannery, The Weather Makers.)

Currently the Greenland Ice sheet is melting at the rate of 224 (+or- 41) cubic kilometers a year, according to he March 2006 issue of Science. Now quite apart from the other effects, it's simple physics that a smaller ice sheet reflects less of the incoming solar radiation back into space...

There is lots more that I haven't looked at, (nor will , I ain't a climatologist either,) and I don't want to turn this into a post , but personally I have come to the position that we can't afford to wait until all the evidence in to everybody's satisfaction! If we're wrong, let's be wrong on the side of caution.

posted by Nautikos on July 16, 2006 at 1:05 PM | link to this | reply

Corbin - the core values of everyone in Acadamia is love of God, love of

country, and love of truth

posted by FreeManWalking on July 16, 2006 at 10:36 AM | link to this | reply

An agenda is an agenda.............As to the universities.......See the likes of Ward Churchill or Kevin Barrett.....I have no doubt that they would have research results closely matching their personal views.

Now, we have to weight in on whether my cynicism is greater than your naivete......

posted by Corbin_Dallas on July 16, 2006 at 10:19 AM | link to this | reply

Corbin, I think independent university or govt research has objectivity

on its side much more than a person or firm hired by an entity that stands to lose big if the research comes out to prove global warming is happening and their products are a major source of it.

We could take a pole of every climate scientist in the country and what we'd find is that most will agree that global warming is happening. If opponents of global warming can find one or two who disagree they will flock to the same one or two scientists all the time to provide support for their case.

posted by FreeManWalking on July 16, 2006 at 10:11 AM | link to this | reply

Ugh.......

I just got a "D" in spellchecking....

posted by Corbin_Dallas on July 16, 2006 at 9:54 AM | link to this | reply

but I bet you'll find scientists who agree that global warming is happening are pursuing pure science and truth. The minority of scientists who waiver or try to debunk the the trend either have no backbone to posit a firm position or are backed by the big energy companies. Okay, so I have actually researched this some and this is the case (that they are funded by big energy).

That is you opinion....I be willing to bet that there is an "equal" number of scientists with differing opinions......as to financial backing.....what is the fdifference betweeen a scientist reciving funding from and "evil corporation" vs. receiving funding from a politically motivatied group.....both have the same objective....data that supports their agenda.

Lets be honest - how can anyone look at glaciers, depth of permafrost, and average temperatures charts and not acknowledge that the earth is getting warmer? (I will say western WA where I live has defied global warming way too much of the course of this summer...we could use a few extra degrees up here).

Yes., the earth may or may not be warmer.......but that doesn't mean that the fear inspiring phrase "GLOBAL WARMING" is applicable here. How many years of temperature charts do we actually have? The earth gets much more impact on it warming and cooling based on the variations in the output of the sun......And we're not exploiting things there yet.

Just OMHO.......

posted by Corbin_Dallas on July 16, 2006 at 9:53 AM | link to this | reply

Justi, I agree with you, and BOTH sides are derelict in this matter.

posted by JanesOpinion on July 16, 2006 at 9:19 AM | link to this | reply

R_I, yeah, you're right.

We can never be fully objective; that seems to be humanly rather impossible. However, it certainly LOOKS better when someone pulls from a slew of different perspectives.

posted by JanesOpinion on July 16, 2006 at 9:18 AM | link to this | reply

FMW, I would agree with you.

I think global warming is definitely happening to some degree, but when a reporter is reporting only from one side of the spectrum, that makes his objectivity and the info he's given rather suspect in my book. Give me all sides and let me form an educated opinion.