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Re: Re: Re: Kabu

Thank you ma'am for considering and elevating me to the high altar of your favourite Professor. Ha ha, is that so?

posted by anib on October 21, 2017 at 10:22 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Anib

I'm so glad GM that you could understand the essence of Krishna's quote on undeviated exclusivity. Many may not agree because such confusing verses on the outset are so contradictory with the other parts that instead of trying to reflect on the deeper aspects they start arguing. And that is the beauty of the Gita. The CEO of HDFC bank literally started a fight with me on another of the Gita verses, again of the 9th chapter. When we met again after years he said that he was finally able to understand the profundity of the verse as I was explaining to him. The segregation as told in the first quote, in their alienation to a world of blinding darkness is necessary for God to deal with them in exclusive separateness. Another good point you mention is that about the possibility, though rare, of repentance and reconciliation when they are finally able to realize the futility of it all, like Emperor Ashoka did by later becoming a peaceful ruler and a patron of Buddhism. You may not have seen Krishna's logic on justice, understandably so, because it was only a part of the ongoing discussion, which he explains later. There are nine more chapters, and every single issue of human psyche and dilemma is discussed at great length subsequently. Wish I could carry on from where I left ... the first two chapters. Thanks and Cheers

posted by anib on October 21, 2017 at 10:17 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re:

Thank you dear teacher. I feel so good inside when I get a good remark from my favorite Professor.

posted by Kabu on October 20, 2017 at 4:18 PM | link to this | reply

Anib

Now I have some time to comment on the rest of your post, which was quite intriguing, with Hindu quotes. The first quote, "Those people that kill the Self, upon giving up their mortal bodies go to the worlds of devils enveloped in blinding darkness", seems scary and foreboding. But depending on what killing the Self means, it could be quite encouraging to the rest of us. It is only justice, that those predators who are 'hell-bent' to prey upon the rest of us, over many lifetimes, should one day find themselves in some kind of 'hell' (but not the stereotypical Hell), separated from us, and among their own evil predatory peers, so that the only victims they have available are each other. Such eventual separation of them from us is essential, in my mind, and Jesus speaks of it in separating the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats.

On the other hand, repentance and reconciliation and grace might always be available, even for the hard-core predators who are thought to be past saving. They might finally see that preying on others is not the best way to live, and become open to love and light. This is in line with your second quote: "Even if one, a supreme master of all abominable actions renders devotional service unto Me with undeviated exclusivity, such a one is to be considered a saint because he is perfectly poised in all his actions."

I would imagine that this reversal of morality is extremely rare, but always possible. Krishna's words are somewhat confusing, but I think he could be meaning that if a supreme master of predatory evil starts rendering service to God (and service to all others), with undeviating exclusivity, then the former predator is devoting all of his or her time and energy to such service, and thus no longer has any time or energy for predatory evil. I would imagine that repentance and reconciliation and enlightenment are also involved, but Krishna did not address that issue right here. Also not addressed here is the horrific debt that the supreme predator might owe, to the multitude of all of his or her victims of the past.

So the former supreme evil predator has finally learned the basic moral lesson that love is better than hate, helping others is better than hurting them, etc. This should always be a possibility, however rare it might be. Theoretically, even Satan could finally learn the basic moral lesson...... but I am quite sure that dozens of his predatory lieutenants would be battling each other to take Satan's place.

posted by GoldenMean on October 20, 2017 at 11:08 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Anib to GM

Thank you GM for your praise, enjoying, and asking me to reconsider those last lines you've mentioned. I take youtr point and in all probability I could be wrong. There is no such thing in Hinduism that I've found. I just felt the possibility of one's exhausting evil in one go; wouldn't thst be something nice?. But then there are lesser incarnations like Paddock still coming in to do enough damage; again there seems to be replacements but no end to evil. Your comment makes me think on another direction. That's why I wrote 'to my way of thinking' since I did not have enough proof. All the same it's like experimenting and failing, one day maybe we'll be able to catch the right cord in accord. Cheers

posted by anib on October 20, 2017 at 5:48 AM | link to this | reply

And also, my friend Anib...

You and I have been born in different countries, with different cultures and religions, and we have both tried to independently apply our awareness and intelligence to the place we find ourselves in, like a ship-wrecked sailor cast upon the shore of a new land, who must quickly learn and adapt as best he can.

In my investigations and readings, I have found that evil souls such as Hitler or Stalin, and lesser evil souls such as Stephen Paddock of the Las Vegas shooting, will be segregated in the afterlife. They will first be tended to with what little can be done in the way of cleansing and healing, and then they will naturally go into a regenerative sleep or hibernation, for centuries of our time, before they are allowed to reincarnate again, to begin to pay off the massive amounts of evil that they have deposited in their "cosmic moral bank account" (a term I just invented, to sum up all I have read about it). This is in accord with the ideas of karma that you and I have both written about.

So, far from paying off an allotted amount of evil that we have been burdened with, as you suggested in this post...... we are capable of committing unlimited evil, and the amount of evil we commit, will extend our period of spiritual hibernative regeneration, sleeping, while our peers advance far beyond us, before we are even allowed to reincarnate to try again. The evil ones will be far behind their former peers, but they will have a chance to step into a new group of souls in the timeline of development..... to learn to do good and avoid evil.

This is only one cosmic scenario that I have read about or heard about, but it is the most likely, in my mind, so far..... even though it falls far short of my idea of cosmic justice...... Cheers

posted by GoldenMean on October 20, 2017 at 1:56 AM | link to this | reply

Anib

I am very impressed with your capacity for research and quick response. I thank you for answering my query, and for researching this subject so deeply. I am impressed by your knowledge of Hindu literature, as it applies to good and evil. I thoroughly enjoyed this article, and was in much agreement, until I came to this passage, near the end:

"To my way of thinking, the Hitlers, the Napoleans, Mussolinis, Strotskys, Stalins, Kim Jong-uns, Osama bin Ladens and the Dawood Ibrahims of this world who have so thoroughly damaged the world, have also equally thoroughly exhausted and emptied their allotted quota of evil in one single go, in their one lifetime, so much so that there can be no trace of the demoniacal left remnant to be enacted in the next birth. They will be born saintly beings. Evolution does not permit one to be forever engulfed in darkness."

I would beg you to reconsider this thread of thought. There is no allotted quota of evil, and no alloted quota of goodness. We are all capable of committing unlimited evil, and unlimited goodness.

But, according to your stated logic, we should all kill as many people as we can, as fast as we can, so that we exhaust our allotted burden of evil. If this were true, then Stephen Paddock is well on his way to becoming an angel, but no, and alas, I am sorry to say, very sadly, he has fallen very short of that goal. He only killed a paltry 58 people, whereas Hitler and Stalin killed tens of millions...........

so I think Paddock will need a few more lives, killing 58 million or so, before he exhausts his "allotted quota of evil". The greatest murderer in history, Mao Tse Tung, was responsible for over 60 million deaths in China, so Paddock has a long way to go, I fear. Unless different souls have different quotas...... I must defer to you, on that fine point..................

I must ask, where did this burden, or quota, of evil come from? Who put this bundle of evil into our soul? I would say, no one. We are not pre-ordained or pre-destined with any amount of good or evil to accomplish. This idea reminds me of the Original Sin and the resultant Curse upon humanity, in Christian orthodox doctrine, which I regard as equally irrational and foolish.

Regardless of how we were created or evolved, we are all independent souls, who develop over time and make our own decisions, for better or worse. But, vitally important, there is a timeline of development in the universe. If we are wise, we can follow the advice of our cosmic superiors (on the side of goodness), who have been fighting evil for millions of years before us, or we can foolishly veer away on a path of our own, to make the same mistakes that have been made by millions of souls for millions of years before us. Such stubborn souls will listen to no one, read no book, listen to no wiser soul, and they generally turn to predatory evil, to abuse and destroy others to accomplish their selfish goals.

So I would say that there is no "allotted quota of evil" or allotted quota of anything in our lives. It is all a matter of free will and choice. But there are massive trends of free will and choice, on Earth and in the spirit realm, and we should pay close attention to those, or pay a great price of suffering and conflict, for a long long time.

posted by GoldenMean on October 20, 2017 at 1:13 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Aba Brother

Yes, now that you mention it, I do recall something about poisoning the water. Just didn't connect it. Thank you.

posted by Sea_Gypsy on October 20, 2017 at 12:07 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Aba Brother

Chemical warfare sis Presta, you'll be surprised as far back as in 600 BC, when the Atenians tried to poison the wells of Sparta. The ancients had good knowledge of the prolonged damage the trick could do. Asoka used it in 250 BC and Genghis Khan updated it in 150 AD, and so on and so forth.

posted by anib on October 18, 2017 at 11:04 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Aba Brother

Thank you sis, and I'm glad you find the post interesting. I like those writes that shock or even provoke readers into thinking and argue the possibility of its not being true or otherwise accepting a possibility. And generally I enjoy researching the arguments that appear convincing. GM invariably provides material that require explanation in rather longer posts.

posted by anib on October 18, 2017 at 10:49 PM | link to this | reply

Aba Brother

This post is one that leaves me thinking, and that's what's so great about it! I would hope that those whom you mentioned have depleted enough negative energy for all lifetimes, as you say. Chemical warfare in 250 BC? Even then... I was brought up to look for the good in all, but at times it seems like it is missing in some. Very interesting post, Aba brother.

posted by Sea_Gypsy on October 18, 2017 at 10:40 PM | link to this | reply

Re:

I like your 'some people are wired wrong before birth'. In a sea of bad, such people have their good embedded only at the bottom which hardly come to surface. Hell and Heaven are mind creations. They don't exist anywhere physically. The mind makes a heaven of hell and a hell of heaven. You are one of those who knows the secret of making a heaven of hell.

posted by anib on October 18, 2017 at 10:32 PM | link to this | reply

Re: blackcat

Depends on each individual's take, and that's also the beauty. Thanks for reading and commenting.

posted by anib on October 18, 2017 at 10:25 PM | link to this | reply

there is good within everyone. I think that some folks are wired wrong before birth. i don't believe in hell

posted by Kabu on October 18, 2017 at 3:46 PM | link to this | reply

the baddest of the bad return as saints? hmmm... I have a problem with that. I prefer to think they burn in hell forever.