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Sorry, I forgot to follow through
One of my main points being this: that the evils of Saudi Arabia (which we agree on) are more religious-based than you recognize, and likewise the good deeds of Israel are more religious-based than you recognize. Regardless of what the US government may or may not do, with its own separate set of priorities.
posted by
GoldenMean
on February 10, 2016 at 6:40 AM
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Here is a significant fact to consider
Saudi Arabia might include all the factors you describe. But Saudi Arabia is also the birthplace of Islam, just as Israel is the birthplace of both Judaism and Christianity.
Saudi Arabia forbids non-Muslims from entering Mecca at all. It is the sanctuary of Muslims only, which cannot be corrupted or defiled by the presence of infidels, like you and me. This represents a dark and evil prejudice, bigotry, and religious supremacy that boggles the mind, perhaps unprecedented in human history. Have you ever heard of any other city being declared off-limits to anyone of an opposing religion? I have not.
Israel, on the other hand, struggles with its policy of admitting Muslims into religious shrines in Jerusalem. They are faced with the historical destruction of their great Temple. Muslims invaded their ancient lands, killed a great many Jews, and built a Mosque upon the site of their most holy Jewish temple. Nothing like this has happened in Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia bans all non-Muslims from entering Mecca. Israel, at its own peril, struggles with respecting the beliefs of its enemy.
Can you imagine the international outrage, if Israel were to suddenly follow the example of Saudi Arabia? If they declared tomorrow, that they will do what the Saudis have done for centuries? To eject all non-Jews from Jerusalem? But of course, they will never do that.
On top of that, Israel is accepting many thousands of refugees from Syria and elsewhere. It is becoming a serious problem for their economy and their culture. But they are doing it out of the kindness of their hearts, far superior to the Saudis.
Let us give credit, where credit is due.
posted by
GoldenMean
on February 10, 2016 at 5:12 AM
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Re: Katray
Thank you for your thoughtful comment, Krisles and actually I don't think of you as far right. From reading you, I have sensed a strong Independent streak, which I consider myself to be too. 
I don't agree with many of the pro choice movement's positions and do not care for or support most Democrats. This post attempts to highlight what I consider to be an obsessive attitude of some conservative bloggers here towards the worst elements of Islam and then does paint all adherents with too broad of a brush - the writings about all Muslims who read the Koran follow the exact same violent interpretations of it or else they are not true Muslims is a good example of the obviously biased opinions that are not just simply shared but expounded upon ad nauseum until they are thought to be true and factual by some readers. That is the basis of my frustration; when I see people wondering out loud if they should fear their new neighbors only because the neighbors happen to be a Muslim family!
Extremism is a complex issue of many layers; one is the issue of Saudi Arabia - given the support for the radical and oppressively narcissistic interpretation of Islam and thusly terrorism (most of the 9-11 hijackers and bin Laden were Saudi nationals) by high ranking SA royalty and officials and the horrific, state sanctioned abuse of women, why has that country forever and always been a close U.S. ally and friend; well at least since the discovery of vast amounts of oil in the kingdom? Obviously what the Western oil company elites desire carries much more weight than countering extremism and terrorism and this has been true for decades. These facts need to be seen and understood by those who worry about Islamic terrorism, which btw is NOT the number one threat to life globally; that would be heart disease.
posted by
Katray2
on February 7, 2016 at 6:55 AM
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Re:
Fascinating and reinforces experiences of Western women who traveled to Islamic countries that I've read about; no physical violence, no hatred. Excellent points, Annicita and thank you so much for sharing!
posted by
Katray2
on February 7, 2016 at 5:55 AM
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Katray
I'm glad you have no intention of leaving Blogit. I know you probably think I'm in the far right camp, just as I think you are in the far left camp...perhaps we are both not quite correct in our assessments. I am actually a registered Independent, quite liberal in some aspects and very conservative in others. The only thing I object to with what you've said is you seem to imply that people who hold opposite opinions haven't studied the other side's materials before they reached their opinions.
I have always found that there are always plenty of 'research' to back up both sides positions and drive a sane person crazy trying to figure out the 'facts'...the bottom line is it always depends on your paradigm, plain and simple. I believe there are good and bad Muslims, just as there are good and bad Christians, good and bad Jews, etc.....I have never, ever said that all Muslims are evil....but when I support what Nautikos is posting, it is because I do believe there is a danger from radical Islamists, and I do see what has happened in Europe, and I have seen what not paying attention to so many other things has wrought in this country. And, I don't care about anything but the future that gets handed to my grandchildren. I think my position is right...but, I believe you have every right to your position and that you believe it with full integrity and every bit as much love for our country as I have.
posted by
Krisles
on February 6, 2016 at 11:39 PM
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I agree with you Katray. I have been to the Middle East on 3 separate occasions. Only once did I experience any violence against me - my purse was stolen. I suffered no physical trauma. This is something that could have happened anywhere in any country - for that matter in city in the USA.
Women's rights need improvement not just in Muslim countries but in our own country. Women still earn less than men even when they hold the same degree and experience. The rights were improving until the fanatics in Washington backed by the religiuos fanatics started cutting here and there at women's reproductive rights.
posted by
Annicita
on February 6, 2016 at 10:29 PM
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Re:
Excellent comment, Christie. I relate to your perspective strongly; Thank you..
posted by
Katray2
on February 3, 2016 at 4:50 PM
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Re:
Thank you, C C T..really appreciate that!
posted by
Katray2
on February 3, 2016 at 4:49 PM
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Katray,
Why should we ever hate anyone based on their ethnicity and/or religious faiths? I certainly don't. Some of the kindest people I've ever had the pleasure and privilege of knowing are Muslims.
God created each and every one of us...and yes, He gave us the right to chose which faith we practise. Nowhere did He ever say, hate and fear and kill in my Holy name. In fact, ALL holy books teach us just the opposite.
We just need to stand back and look at each other's human traits and stop basing our assumptions on fear. That's all they really are, after all...Assumptions.
posted by
lovelyladymonk
on February 3, 2016 at 11:43 AM
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Well Kat whatever you say will please some and disturb others. However you tell it as it is and that is honorable.
posted by
C_C_T
on February 3, 2016 at 3:52 AM
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Re: Dear Kabu, I'm not leaving Blogit and Thank you so deeply for your very
cos like many of our own people including lots of church people, they are hypocrites and love to sneak around doing what they openly despise and WILL not tolerate from their own women. But yes, the rules are horrific for their women I totally agree and I am totally against sharia law. But I am totally against unequal pay for the same work, and names like Biker Mole, and I believe all women should be in control of their own bodies and education and just everything.
posted by
Kabu
on February 1, 2016 at 12:01 PM
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Dear Kabu, I'm not leaving Blogit and Thank you so deeply for your very
even handed views and response - you are one who I feel is open minded and seeing in all directions; never a "confused old bird" lol. I also hate with a passion how women are mistreated in countries such as Saudi Arabia; that's why I abhor the way my country has overlooked their horrific human rights abuses stretching on for decades at least, all in the name of oil and greed. I remember Bush 2 walking with Saudi elites, holding hands, kissing cheeks; gag!
These same men who abuse all Saudi women, not in the true spirit of Islam but because it makes Saudi men omni powerful and in full control - they can do anything they please, have forced sex with young girls, beat, murder and they hijack the tenets of a religion to justify their actions. If they truly adhere to Islam, as they say they do, then why do so many Saudi royal members - their ruling government! and other abusive Islamic leaders go to Las Vegas, drink, gamble, pay for prostitutes; reveling in the exact same Western "decadence" they bemoan and speak out against in their home countries??
posted by
Katray2
on February 1, 2016 at 11:31 AM
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Darling, I ain't got any conclusions on this subject.
I do have very strong thoughts on women's rights and that bubbles over the pot to the rights of all minority groups and underprivileged and folks who are hated for the color of their skins,
I do have concerns for the way radical Muslims are acting and spreading. I do understand that it can start in schools. Children are marginalized and picked on, taught one thing at home another in school. I mean I had a teacher friend who gave up because her school was predominately Muslim and she could not cope with the way her girls were treated by brothers and male cousins. There are huge wrongs and misconceptions on all sides.
Then I see where some little teenage girls run around the streets in the skimpiest bit of cover over their bottom and feel ashamed.
I don't have any answers. I just don't like seeing people getting blown to pieces. and Why isn't there the same concern about Boko Haram as Isis? why is it worse if people die in Paris than in Nigeria? People will say there is no difference but the dollar and media coverage says different.
I hate guns but what happens in the USA is not my business; but it seems to this outsider that far more people die from guns in the hands of non Muslims than otherwise.
Sorry I got carried away. I'll go back and sit on my fence like the confused old bird that I am.
Don't leave Blogit because you have strong views. People can either read or not.
posted by
Kabu
on February 1, 2016 at 11:05 AM
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