Go to Seeking Limits of Mankind, and Limits of God
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Krisles--- are you one of those people who wants to know how the movie ends, before you see it?? LOL 
posted by
GoldenMean
on December 11, 2015 at 10:41 PM
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Goodness is the class of the limited, Evil is the class of the unlimited
Krisles-- thanks very much for your thoughtful input. I am not trying to lecture..... if that is how it is coming off, I need to change my structure. I am just trying to present ideas and questions in some sort of order or progression. I am also trying to work out how to clearly state my premises. I don't have them all neatly written out, ready to present at the end. But I do have them, in rough form.
In my life, I started with religion, swtiched to a keen interest in philosophy, then looked for ways to combine the best elements of both. One of the key things that impressed me in philosophy, also alarmed me and scared me, was the core differerence between Good or service-to-others, and Evil or service-to-self. In ancient Greece, Pythagorus taught that Good belongs to "the class of the limited", and Evil belongs to "the class of the unlimited." This was great wisdom that needs to be understood today.
This means that good people keep their commitments; evil people do not. Good people do not try to lie or deceive others for their own advantage; evil people consider lies and deception their best friends. Good people do not conduct surprise attacks on innocent people; evil people do it all the time with words, actions, or weapons.
For good people, all the immoral or unethical choices are ruled out and not considered. So right from the start, half of their options are closed. Evil people have no such handicap..... and they use their full range of choices to full advantage.
In the struggle of good versus evil, this is the basic disadvantage of goodness and advantage of evil. It is a HUGE factor in any conflict. It applies to God and his adversaries, just as much as it applies to us battling ISIS and other horrific evils in this world. Even if God were omnipotent, he belongs to "the class of the limited", because he is good, benevolent, and seeking to serve us, and to help us to grow in spirit.
As it is below, so it is above. God faces the same limits we do, if he wants to accomplish goodness. And the legions of evil adversaries he faces, that we know little about, are greatly empowered by the "natural advantages" of evil described above.
That is before we start to consider any structural, physical or metaphysical limitations that God may face.
The story of Job will illustrate these principles very well. Job has come to be my favorite character in the Bible, and I think you will enjoy my telling of the story.
posted by
GoldenMean
on December 11, 2015 at 10:21 PM
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Wow! I think this doesn't seem like so much information to you because you know what your premise is, so you know where all these threads are leading and can hold them all together in your mind.....but, personally, I have a hard time (of course, I have been dx with ADD!) because I keep waiting to see specifically where you are going with all of this...I get it, we're looking at the question of whether God has limitations or not, or does He have a reason for picking and choosing when to intervene, is this part of His plan,if there is one etc., etc...I always had a hard time with this style of lecturing, but that's just me. You obviously know your stuff and it's very interesting....I'm just learning disabled that way!!
I like to know your premise, when you obviously have one....and then hear your reasoning. Of course, if you're just thinking outloud with your keyboard...that's different! That said, I'm going to keep plugging along because it is interesting. And...that said....while I very much believe in God, I've spent very little time contemplating His nature or plans - since there's no way to know unless He directly communicates them to me in some manner in which I have confidence, I think about things I can control or affect.....and I study people, made in His image.
posted by
Krisles
on December 11, 2015 at 5:24 PM
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Nautikos-- Aw, come on, now. You are a good researcher and investigator, apparently a very good one. Consider this a search through a historical document (the Bible), for clues of the hypothetical nature of God. It is a flawed document, to be sure, tampered with by church fathers, and distorted somewhat through language interpretations. But clues are there to be found.
But you won't find a pattern, unless you have some idea of what you are looking for. You won't find a pattern, if your mind is closed on the subject. It is kind of like how B-Hussein-O won't say or think the words "Islamic terrorist", because his mind is closed on the subject, and no one can make him see it or admit it.
Minds are like parachutes..... they can only work when they are open.
You might know more about this, than you think you know. Like Obi'wan told Luke Skywalker: "Just use your feelings, Naut"...... LOL
Just kidding..... I am not trying to offend or chase you away. I very much value your opinions, and I hope you keep reading.
Cheers
posted by
GoldenMean
on December 11, 2015 at 3:26 PM
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GM
I read this great interest; but since I know absolutely nothing, zilch, rien, nada, nichts - about the main protagonists, God and Satan, I find it extremely difficult to make any meaningful comment...
posted by
Nautikos
on December 11, 2015 at 10:29 AM
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