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From Bunny
Cake -- you're kind of late in the game on this one. I'll repeat what I wrote in response to Inkling:
I really shouldn't have used the phrase "worship-leader." I didn't realize that this describes an offocial role in the church. No one has asked me to be a worship-leader. No one asked me to be any kind of speaker, minister or director.
That particular gig was just about singing some songs during the service. I wasn't sure about the scope of the job when I first posted, but later I found out what it was. As I wrote about extensively in another post, people perform at religious services for faiths different from their own all the time. It's not a secret; sometimes it's extremely obvious, like when a well-known musician of one religion performs for a special service in a church or synagogue of another religion.
Not happy about it? Well, be sure to let your own church know! But churches will continue to hire musicians as they need them.
posted by
Bunny
on January 28, 2004 at 4:19 PM
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First of all, I would like to discuss with you the belief in many gods. If the typical interpretation is correct, the very first commandment in The Holy Bible recognizes the fact that many gods do in fact exist... "I the Lord am a jealous God, and thou shalt have no other gods before me." - Deuteronomy.
Next, I would invite you to participate as a guest as you observe the teachings of the church... typically, one needs to read and study the Bible on one's own... what's taught at a Sunday service is barely sufficient to get an accurate picture of Christianity and its Jewish roots.
If you are sincere in your searchings into Christianity, I would allow you as much time you need to draw your own conclusions, but unless you were to become a committed, Spirit-filled Christian, I would not ask you to lead Praise & Worship. If a church is using its music leaders to "hype" the congregation up, they are missing the point and I doubt God is looking on them with a smile. He doesn't need our temporary displays of affection if they are not coming from our long-term hearts.
I'll keep you in my prayers.
posted by
cmoe
on January 28, 2004 at 3:28 PM
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Inkling
said it exactly right! And I still feel that Bunny knows in her heart that this is not a role for her to take
posted by
PastorB
on January 9, 2004 at 11:18 PM
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From Bunny
I really should have used the phrase "worship-leader." I didn't realize that this describes an offocial role in the church. No one has asked me to be a worship-leader. No one asked me to be any kind of speaker, minister or director. They asked me to sing, and they might want me to get the crowd on their feet, lead sing-a-longs, and do other cheerleading things.
Your opinions might still be exactly the same, that you only want to see church members in this role, and you would feel strange if you knew the person singing and leading songs was not Christian. I just want to make sure the opinions are based on the actual job offer, and not on the idea that I would be making decisions or being a minister.
posted by
Bunny
on January 9, 2004 at 4:13 PM
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I would not go near a church that was willing to hire a worship leader
who wasn't a Christian. If the pastor doesn't understand worship (which requires that people actually worship as they're leading worship!), then the church must be pretty dead or compromised. I was actually in a church where the pastor didn't realize he had hired "weak" Christians to lead worship, but every week, it was so depressing, despite the fact that they were very musically gifted and spirited...it always felt like a performance instead of a time of pouring our hearts out to God in praise and adoration or in brokenness, longing to be filled. I prayed for what was happening to be revealed, and it good time, it was. Our worship times were much improved after those people moved on.
posted by
Inkling
on January 9, 2004 at 3:21 PM
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Well, I wouldn't say we'd 'have a cow'
maybe a small calf! To lead the music is still a position of ministry of sorts. Bunny, I think your heart already knows the answer, go with your gut.
posted by
PastorB
on January 9, 2004 at 11:00 AM
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From Bunny: I should make it clear...
....that I won't be any kind of director, boss, planner, bandleader or minister. I would be the lead singer for this church band, and not every week either; they rotate their musicians.
However, I'll be "revving up" the crowd, which sounds like I'm doing more than just singing the songs. I don't know exactly what this is supposed to entail yet. You all would know more than I do! What does the lead singer of your church's band do? Maybe it just means he/she says, "Get on your feet!" Or maybe it includes passing on spiritual instruction, which would, indeed, be a ministerial sort of position, which I wouldn't want to take, anyway. I already lead a prayer group of my own religion. I don't need to lead someone else's.
posted by
Bunny
on January 9, 2004 at 10:22 AM
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I haven't got any problems with your
singing in a Christian church, but then we United Methodists are pretty Liberal in including everyone. I think it would depend on the congregation. Some of the more charismatic congregations would have a collective cow on finding that their choir/music director was not a practicing Christian (let alone a poly-theistic pagan) Others might try to prosteletize you, "deprogram" you, "brain-wash" you. Or worse, pay you less because you weren't a member of their church.
Basically, all worship (done correctly) raises power. You have to decide if you want to join your power to that of the congregation you would be singing for/with. Also, whether you want your power to go where they want it to go
posted by
GRYPHON
on January 9, 2004 at 10:07 AM
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I used to sing and play music in the church, but I believed in God.
Then they kept saying that Jesus was God and also the son of God, so I was too confused to agree with them anymore. So, I kept singing about God and ignored the confusing lyrics. From what I understand now, through my refusal to believe what I don't understand, is that a son or daughter will represent the parent's image from their parent's point of view. If the parent does not know the child, then the image may be an entirely different one from the image of the parent, so I could not say that I am my mother, or that my mother is me, because I do not live the same life as my mother. Therefore, I had too much conflict with the teachings of most modern day Christian churches. I would not go back now and sing the songs I used to sing, because I sang them from my heart, with true faith. That's what really hurts - when the church doesn't represent the God you believe in.
I am not a man with long hair who wears robes in public and who was nailed to a tree to be put to death. And Jesus is the son of God. If somebody wants to argue jibberish with you, or stand in church and pretend to be worshipping God with you, that ruins the worship experience. Come to think of it, a professor in college told us that God is dead. Maybe that just means that my cat thought I was dead when I moved away from home.
posted by
TARZANA
on January 9, 2004 at 9:36 AM
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I think you need to believe what you sing,
but then again, you might begin believing it before you'd know it if you'd sing it.
posted by
Midi
on January 9, 2004 at 9:16 AM
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as a Christian and a Pastor
here's my opinion, the worship and praise leader postition is a ministry position. If you were to just be in the choir then my opinion would be that it would be fine for you to do it, you might even get saved in the process, however, being that it is a position of ministry I would not accept someone who didn't have the same faith statement as the church itself or at least the basic belief in Jesus Christ and the Trinity of God. ONE GOD, but I think you already know my stand on that issue anyway. Your spirit wouldn't be "in it" and that would not be fair and just to those that you are ministering too or to yourself. But thats my opinion for what its worth.
posted by
PastorB
on January 9, 2004 at 9:05 AM
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whoa!
now I'm conflicted.. I think I would have a problem with it, but am not sure.
posted by
homegirl
on January 9, 2004 at 9:03 AM
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