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I'm Not Sure It's About Good Versus Evil at all, folks...
...I think it's about right versus wrong.
It is wrong to kill thousands of your own people in order to set up an economic scenario that allows you to turn the middle class of your own country up by its ankles and shake their pockets empty.
It is wrong to allow your friends to profit from the misery of those in your charge. It is despicable to even have such, "friends."
It is wrong to violate the United States Constitution.
It is wrong to take an oath of office that swears to defend the US Constitution, and then to summarily violate that Constitution.
It is wrong to lie to Congress and the American people about the reasons for any nation-defining activity, such as a war. The Iraq War was wrong and no one's pleadings on either side can change that fact, or make it more or less so.
Everything about the Bush Administration is just plain wrong. Evil is a sickness and we can debate about who is healthier than whom, but I'd much prefer if we could simply agree on matters of right versus wrong.
When we do wrong, there are negative consequences that we will be held accountable for. It is wrong for a priviledged class to force the underclass to answer for its misdeeds.
posted by
Volaar
on December 21, 2003 at 9:35 PM
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Br, I'm not sure where you get the idea that we aren't able to distinguish
good from evil. The Bible even tells us what is good and what is evil, what is lawful and unlawful, what is sinful and what is godly. It also says to "test the spirits" and to discern good and evil. What is wrong about liberating a nation full of people from a dictator who killed many more of his own people than we have? I am not saying that everything Bush does is justified, but on the Iraq issue, I see more good than evil in this. Time will tell... The intricacies of politics are indeed almost impossible to dissect because none of the sources can be trusted--opposing stories come from the media--how are we to know what the truth is? We can't always know but that doesn't mean that we do nothing or that we assume the worst. I'm making a lot of generalizations because this a huge topic and I haven't got time to cover it at length. Again, feel free to leave me comments on my blog and I will try to answer them later in a post that is better thought out and researched.
posted by
Inkling
on December 19, 2003 at 4:18 PM
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Revelations
...was added to the Bible much, much later than the other books, and only after heated debate within the church that almost led to the book's ommission. I wonder why.
posted by
BrWiSk
on December 19, 2003 at 4:07 PM
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meant to say...
"...Yes,
war is..." not "was"
posted by
BrWiSk
on December 19, 2003 at 4:06 PM
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Don't you see?
Different teachers, greatly different conclusions.
Need I remind everyone -- not just you -- that conservatives and democrats both got us into this mess with the middle east in the first place? How is it that we can label them evil when we, ourselves, have undertaken unspeakably "evil" things in the Middle East ourselves?
If you are going to talk to me about evil, then go ahead. But the Bible says, and I'm paraphrasing, humans are unable to know the difference between good and evil. The Bible says we are unable to do it; only GOd knows.
Now...consider this: It's
all evil, quite possibly? The wars are evil. Yes, was is an attempt to bring about peace, but only because we're all too arrogant to admit our own faults in matters.
It takes two to tango. Certainly the terrorists have adopted stupendously egregious tactics against us, and nobody should condone it. Surely our own actions against third world countries are just as egregious and perhaps even more sinister for the lone fact that we get away with it.
Evil exists. It is human nature, this evil. Last time I checked, DUBYA IS A HUMAN. Every single damn war ever waged and then justified with the Bible is the greatest abomination against His word. Why? Because, no matter how seemingly justified under OUR WAYS, they are not GOD'S WAYS. OUR WAYS ARE NOT HIS WAYS.
Revelations, on the other hand, is justfied -- but only at the end, when God steps in. Now...there's two ways to look at that. You can prais God for saving us, or you can look at Revelations as, perhaps, a sinister way of keeping us all quiet and out of the way while the ones who have no problem with employing the evil of humanity can go about waging their wars undeterred.
posted by
BrWiSk
on December 19, 2003 at 4:05 PM
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Br, I did indeed visit Paul's link the first time around
and just now I read the article you linked. I couldn't figure out what was so unChristian about Bush--the fact that the media covers his prayer life or that he uses terms like good and evil? The Bible uses those terms also--God is good and Satan is evil, but they're not equal--God is greater. I believe the term axis of evil (I'm no historian) was used during WWII to describe Hiter, Stalin, Mussolini, who I think were allies and all fascists in some form...maybe it included Japan...in any case, Bush may not be using politically correct language, but terrorism is evil and governments that support are not good. I don't know Bush as a person, but as a President, I think he's doing a fine job, and with or without his faith, his actions toward liberating the Middle East would be approved of by most conservatives. Out of the list of Christians in that article, I identified with one--Bonhoeffer. I don't subscribe the liberal brand of Christianity promoted by people like the authors of this article, Anne LaMott (though I like her writing and enjoyed much of Traveling Mercies), and others who seem to think Christianity equals peace and tolerance. The Old Testament (full of just wars) was Jesus concealed and the New Testament is Jesus revealed. And Augustine said, "the purpose of all war is peace."
posted by
Inkling
on December 19, 2003 at 3:49 PM
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Inkling:
Did you even go to the Web site?
I need to scare up some old URLs I have hanging somewhere among my favorites files, but I've got some meat on the Bushes that, quite frankly, should scare just about any Christian. That would include me and, I hope, you.
Please...I know you want to think Dubya is a good man because "he is a Christian." But he actually feigns his belief -- or, at the very least, is
being woefully misled. PLease note that the author of the article I just linked is a pastor and theologian, one of those teachers you say the Bible encourages us to seek for understanding.
paul475: I'm not sure how you might feel about me bringing up religious stuff in my comments to your posts, but I'm on a personal mission, of sorts, to convince right-wing Christian conservatives that Bush is not the Christian they think he is. It goes to the heart of why this guy is even in the White House, if you ask me; the conservative base is being lied to.
posted by
BrWiSk
on December 19, 2003 at 3:36 PM
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I knew I'd need to repost this comment
More speculation, as usual. Had he he been captured living high off the hog, the story would make the same unfounded accusations except it would turn the "evidence" around to suggest that we were trying to fatten the calf, so we could make him look like the royal scumbag that he is. Wouldn't it have been more glamorous for our military to have busted in to his desert penthouse and had a showdown James Bond style? I mean if we were going to stage the whole thing, why not make it sizzle?
posted by
Inkling
on December 19, 2003 at 3:22 PM
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AND--
---let's not forget: Bush and his cronies are trying to distract the media from reporting on touch-screen voting machines made by the Republinazi Diebold company (those lovely machines without a paper trail, of course), whose CEO promised Bush that he would "deliver the votes" to him in 2004. That Jeb Bush pushed through in the cover of night the law mandating those very same machines to be used all over Florida next year. Bush's "capture" of Saddam was timed just as some very nasty investigations regarding Diebold started to surface. Interesting.
Shawn
posted by
ShawnMichel
on December 19, 2003 at 3:06 PM
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