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This is incredible! I find this to be very astounding! What a fantastic study! Shelly
posted by
sam444
on November 28, 2010 at 11:03 AM
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This is very interesting, Naut - and I'm not surprised by the Ravens behavior. However, as a statistician who once designed "social" experiments like these, the human observers (or was that you?) did make a point in the latter paragraph about other subtle cues. Rather than "knowing about knowing," mightn't these catchers have zeroed in on where the "knowing" birds were looking or other "body language" that might be a dead giveaway that the birds that could see where the goodies were hidden would make a beeline for the goods? Mal
posted by
gapcohen
on November 28, 2010 at 4:47 AM
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For some reason my mind just reverted to "How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?"
posted by
TAPS.
on November 27, 2010 at 10:55 PM
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Nautikos
Knowing what I now know, which the non-knowers don't, I'll cache it away and hope our feathered friends will use their intelligence wisely.
posted by
dizzilizzi
on November 27, 2010 at 6:10 PM
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That experiment has yielded us a lot of neat information. It's fascinating what some animals can do.
posted by
FormerStudentIntern
on November 27, 2010 at 5:05 PM
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Nautikos
Not surprising to me now after watching CNN's guy with Ape's (Bono's?) this week and how they had learned to 'speak'.
posted by
WileyJohn
on November 27, 2010 at 1:59 PM
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If you extrapolate this theory of knowledge to people --
that the cacher assumes he is safe from the non-knower, but has to be on guard against the knower, you'd have the typical celebrity scandal. Cacher, (billionaire golfer) hides his stuff, assuming the non-knower (wife) won't interfere, but fails to guard against the knower (tabloid reporter/paparazzi) -- game over. Sounds like maybe ravens are smarter than some of us.
posted by
Pat_B
on November 27, 2010 at 11:32 AM
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I could cuss a streak, when I touch the wrong key! It posts, errors & all!
Naut,
If these descendants of the "Terrible lizards," are surprisingly intelligent predators, and can fly, we should be grateful they are so small. Imagine a highly intelligent, flying tyranasaurus rex! Early man would have quickly become the "late" early man!
Guy
posted by
northsage_45
on November 27, 2010 at 7:40 AM
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Since boids are decended from dinosaurs, be glad that they are so small!Nau
posted by
northsage_45
on November 27, 2010 at 7:32 AM
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Nautikos
JY We had one in the yard that the crows continued its intelligent awareness of other creatures, including humans. Did the Native Americans know it? BC-A, Bill’s RJLst
posted by
BC-A
on November 26, 2010 at 11:23 PM
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For some reason the last few weeks have been an amazing discovery
of nature intelligence, for me. Nature being all living creatures , ravens are amazing.
posted by
Tzippy
on November 26, 2010 at 10:38 PM
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Naut
Cool! Not surprising to me. Neat post.
posted by
Justi
on November 26, 2010 at 9:07 PM
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Once sent to the Tower of London, the scalliwag male and promiscuous
female realized that life here was actually pretty cushy. Humans in silly clothes and called Beefeaters fed them and made their lives comfortable because A Gnome, just for fun ....whispered the story that Ravens were lucky and if they stayed in the Tower, Britain would remain powerful etc and etc..........
posted by
Kabu
on November 26, 2010 at 7:50 PM
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Ok, after reading of the cacher, the knower and the knowing --- or was it the knowledge of the unknown --- okay, this is a re-reader - but you know what Naut - I got the gist. I knew these were intelligent birds. This type of intelligence is really brilliant, I knew it. It makes one wonder because of their brain size --- so it has to be more of 'instinct' hmmm...quite interesting and I'm all h'ears' ~ (this is an interesting study on the 'bird brain' :
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3214/03-brain.html ) ~ Elyse
posted by
elysianfields
on November 26, 2010 at 7:39 PM
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