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I could never be associated with anything that condones the beating of a woman or any human being! It feels like a control and power concept! To follow an edict that one person is the way and to shun others or even kill is not a healthy religion for me! Shelly
posted by
sam444
on March 11, 2010 at 12:04 AM
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"original"..
posted by
Katray2
on February 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM
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Not a warning, John, just a hope
posted by
Katray2
on February 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM
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Religion is the orginal gray...
posted by
Katray2
on February 28, 2010 at 6:31 AM
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Wiley I agree with you
I think we studied enough and saw enough damage to know the danger and the acts that can be and are commited by those who read the koran and come to understand that murder is god's will. I believe the debate of what the koran says and doesnt say should be over and understood and is clear as day, the next debate should begin of how to save our world from those who read the koran and dedicate their life to destroying and killing our way of life. Wiley came up with one good idea. What do you suggest would be a good way to deal with it, if you were in a position of power? I would take the position of wiping out the enemy, no mercy to our murderers. Its the only way to survive.
posted by
Tzippy
on February 27, 2010 at 12:04 PM
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Nautikos
I'm what Poet Raye warned about in a comment, I don't want to study anymore about Islam, anymore than I want to study about Fascism, I just want immigrations stopped and the people that are here have to obey Canadian Law, make no laws of their own or deport the lot of them.
Dang you are one intelligent professor and a magnificent writer but I really can't enter the debate seriously because I just want the problem out of here and if that means all those that practice it have to go, then I'll wave goodbye because from all you have written, I just see the evil of Islam.
Oh, if you want to toss in the pedophile Catholic priests as well, go for it, deport them too after they've been castrated. I'm a man for solutrions not debate.
posted by
WileyJohn
on February 26, 2010 at 6:30 PM
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I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head as it relates to other similiar situations being brought into the discussion. You are also so right about some people believing that everything is a shade of gray.
posted by
FormerStudentIntern
on February 26, 2010 at 3:45 PM
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The Koran...
(Contained in):
The Bibles, not all under the heading of sin - Old and New Testament:
Abortion
Bestiality
Cannibalism / Castration / Child Abuse / Child Murder
Exhibitionism
Genocide
Homosexuality / Human Sacrifice
Incest |/ Infanticide
Necrophilia
Polygamy / Prostitution
Sex Scenes / Slavery / Sexual Slavery / Submission / Suicide
Theft
To answer your specific quotes from the Koran on the issue of intolerance of other faiths, here are some from the Bible that could be said to reveal the same intolerance/violent strains..but, of course, there is mistranslation to consider, along with understanding the full context of the scripture in question. Things can be and are misunderstood, taken out of context, etc. in the process of interpretation, either deliberately or accidently - this holds true in both religions being discussed here.
the children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."Matthew 8:12
Jesus tells his disciples to keep away from the Gentiles and Samaritans, and go only to the Israelites. Matthew 10:5-6
Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. (see Genesis 19:24). Matthew 10:14-15
Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. Mark 16:16
Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples.Luke 10:10-15
The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers.John 3:36
And I would like to add that my criticism of my government over the issue of complicity with the ruling family of S.A. in their extremist implementation of Islam is by no means limited to Bush or the Republican party. Every administration, up to and including the present one, that allows this travesty to continue, has blood on their hands.
I wonder what "wannabe liberals" are exactly?...Why it's easy to be one, if one wants to do so...but I have instructions around here somewhere, if desired..just give a holler..:) 
posted by
Katray2
on February 26, 2010 at 5:51 AM
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Naut......
A bit off the subject of this post....but have you read anything about this sect of Islam? The Ibadis? In Oman.....
From Dr. Jack Wheeler:
As Suhar became a coastal hub of trade, it was settled by Mesopotamians, Greeks, Indians, Arabian Bedouins, and especially Persians, who dominated the whole area until folks from the interior of Arabia showed up demanding they accept a newly-invented religion called "Islam" - which means "submission" in Arabic.
One thing the Omanis had going for them was a barrier between them and the Arabs - a vast and labyrinthine complex of mountains, instead of flat desert. They also knew they didn't want some Arab horde swarming in to force their Islam upon them at sword-point. So they told the Arabs, okay, we'll accept your beliefs but on our own terms, we'll interpret them in our own way. You can leave us alone now.
Thus arose a form of Islam unique to Oman, Al-Ibadhiyah or Ibadism, which remains today as Oman's state religion. It's named after one of its early formulators, Abdullah ibn Ibadh (fl. 700 AD).
In addition to a plethora of doctrinal differences separating them from Sunnis and Shias, Ibadists elect their Imams in communal debates and reject the concept of Jihad, or forcing kafirs, unbelievers, to believe as they. Live and let live Islam, we might call it.
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on February 26, 2010 at 5:21 AM
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Naut,
I will start by addressing a statement in your previous post:
"But Islam is an exception: it is pathological!" When you single out a religion in it's entirety for condemnation, it crosses into the territory of prejudice. Which has little if naught to do with reason and fact and everything to do with personal feeling. Not saying you are prejudiced, but such blanket statements do carry a risk of appearing so.
Of course, extremism in any religion is pathological - what else is new?
If you reread my comment about German Christians and Catholics you will see I do not state they were silent, but that voices of the moderates were/are drowned out. To finish that thought, drowned out by those who do not or did not wish to hear them because of agendas which seek to misuse the tragedies and horror for other purposes. Such as spreading fear, control, hatred and distrust, reasons to steal away freedoms, war...I see this happening now to the moderate Muslim population, so it does tie in.
To be clear, I am not saying this is your agenda, but I will say it is easy to fall prey to. And I hope that doesn't offend you, because that is not my intent. I am not offended by anything you have responded with. I appreciate your time and effort in discussing this vital issue.
As far as Saudi Arabia is concerned, the truth is there; in numerous news articles and well thought out pieces written by people much closer to the pulse of realities than either one of us are.
You can only go so far in any debate - stone walls are met from one side or the other or both..:) Then, imho, all that's left to do is agree to disagree and hope that others have gleaned something from the process - in my view, the hoped for effect is that readers have engaged their brains over predictable, knee jerk reactions and will continue the journey under their own steam by way of educating themselves - with the ease and timeliness offered by the Internet, there really is no excuse not to.
Sincerely,
Raye
posted by
Katray2
on February 26, 2010 at 2:24 AM
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You are indeed a great debater my friend... There is no bluffing you :-) and I kind of feel sorry for those who don't know what they are talking about and yet attempt to correct you. We need more people like you in our classrooms, to teach our children what they are not been taught. Perhaps then they will be able to tell the difference between fact and the boloney those wannabe liberals try to feed them. You are in a word refreshing :-) xoxoxo
posted by
Sinome
on February 25, 2010 at 8:03 PM
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