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Re: onwingsoflove - you specifically mentioned Jesus dying for "our" sins
I have a CD with a sermon on it that will answer your question perfectly. If I can figure out how to get it downloaded on here, I'd like you to listen to it.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 8, 2009 at 8:54 PM
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metalrat - my thinking exactly
"It never ceases to please me how easy it is to use the Bible against the Bible thumpers"
Except that quite often the bible lobotomy they suffer from is so acute that they refuse to see the glaring contradictions.
posted by
gomedome
on May 8, 2009 at 6:58 AM
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Gomedome...
...in reference to your comments to Bhaskar...Adam and Eve weren't the first sinners in the Bible...Lucifer was, by his pride...so not only didn't God get it right, here on Earth...Heaven apparently wasn't a perfect place either, and sin didn't originate in the Garden of Eden. Kinda lets Eve and the entire female sex off-the-hook, doesn't it?
It never ceases to please me how easy it is to use the Bible against the Bible thumpers.
posted by
metalrat
on May 7, 2009 at 9:44 PM
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onwingsoflove - you specifically mentioned Jesus dying for "our" sins
And you have also stated many times that salvation is only attained by being born again. Where it is true that believing in some form of God is a human condition that has existed since the beginnings of our species, to say
"The grace of God has appeared to ALL men" is not even close to the same thing. How for example did those who lived before Christ attain salvation? . . . or on the other side of the planet for at least 1,500 years after his death? . . . or those born into muslim countries today?
posted by
gomedome
on May 7, 2009 at 9:21 PM
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Re: onwingsoflove - how do you possibly reconcile the fact that the vast
I'm afraid I disagree with you. The Bible tells us in Titus that "The grace of God has appeared to ALL men". Everyone gets a chance to accept Him or not.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM
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onwingsoflove - how do you possibly reconcile the fact that the vast
majority of humans of all time do not believe that Christ died for their sins?
Billions of people have historicaly lived and died without even knowing about Jesus Christ. Are they simply poor saps who missed the boat because they were born in the wrong place at the wrong time? . . . it obviously is not "as simple as that" as you would like to believe.
posted by
gomedome
on May 7, 2009 at 10:49 AM
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onwingsoflove - if you would never become a catholic as you say
The only reasonable position to support is the separation of church and state. Unless you can see a clear path to the acceptance of a minority religion being adopted as the official state religion. Even if an introduction of religious beliefs into governmental policies stops short of establishing a theocracy, many people of all religions would be forced to accept the influence of other religions.
posted by
gomedome
on May 7, 2009 at 10:45 AM
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Re: Who says smart people don't have God in their heart???...
God is not in everyones heart. If He was, Christ wouldn't have had to die for sinners. Some choose to accept Jesus, most don't, it's as simple as that.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 7, 2009 at 10:03 AM
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Re: onwingsoflove - let's suspend reality for a moment and say that you have a
I would never become Catholic, no matter how many people are "doing it". Whats popular is not always right, and whats right is not always popular.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 7, 2009 at 9:56 AM
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Re: Who says smart people don't have God in their heart???...
ash_pradhan - you said more or less what I was going to say. I might add; who amongst us knows what is in the hearts of others?
posted by
gomedome
on May 6, 2009 at 6:26 AM
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God or Godliness ... Which one?
More than God, whether He Is or Is Not, the argument can go on endlessly without either party appreciating the other, because the one is steeped in beliefs without questioning its rights and wrongs, and the other can never accept what is illogical. So as I was saying, more that God, it is godliness that is more important. Ash gives that food for thought which is rejuvenating for both.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on May 5, 2009 at 10:07 PM
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Who says smart people don't have God in their heart???...
As a matter of fact, who says God is not in everyone's heart? Having Godly qualities of love, compassion, kindness, understanding is far more important than trumpeting one's belief only in one's own religion, especially in today's diverse world.
posted by
ash_pradhan
on May 5, 2009 at 12:13 PM
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onwingsoflove - let's suspend reality for a moment and say that you have a
valid case for the USA establishing itself as a theocracy.
How would this change come about? There are but two choices; by force or by democratic process, unless you can think of another way. By force would entail a civil war. I will assume that you are not suggesting a civil war. That would leave the democratic process where we can reasonably assume when the question of which religion would become the official state religion, everyone would vote for their own particular denomination.
How do you feel about becoming a catholic? They are after all the single largest religious group in your country. Or is this train of thought only okay if it is your religion that becomes the official state religion?
posted by
gomedome
on May 5, 2009 at 11:56 AM
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Re: I find this particular post & the comments below by it's author...
no one ever said that this blogger was not smart, of course he is. but however, it doesn't matter how much info. is stored in someones brain, what matters is who lives in someones heart. The Scripture says that some are "Ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth". Being smart gets you into college NOT heaven.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 5, 2009 at 11:39 AM
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Re: Re: Re: onwingsoflove - you are suggesting that I read a post by "Redstatesman"?
I know this xeno, it doesn't matter in what year these things happened or when it "came about", the point is-they did.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 5, 2009 at 11:35 AM
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Re: Re: onwingsoflove - you are suggesting that I read a post by "Redstatesman"?
problem with that post -- it quotes state constitutions -- doesn't quote the U.S. Constitution -- what you do is try to find God mentioned in the U.S. Constitution. I don't think you can.
And"In God We Trust" was never part of the U.S. original statements -- it cam about some 100 or so years after our Founding Fathers, just as the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was inserted in the ate 50's and not part of the original.
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 5, 2009 at 11:32 AM
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Re: onwingsoflove - you are suggesting that I read a post by "Redstatesman"?
theres no need to get hostile, I was simply asking you to read it because it was related to what we were talking about earlier. "In God we trust".
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 5, 2009 at 10:50 AM
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I find this particular post & the comments below by it's author...
(not necessarily every post & comment by him) to be flawless, well-reserached, and rational. Arguing otherwise for the sake of arguing merely displays ignorance. Rational arguments revolve around the point of contention and avoid off-the-cuff, poorly-conceived comments, especially if they could be construed of as ignorant / insulting. This site has world-wide readership, and as such it is every writer's responsibility to be careful & sensible about what one writes. I must say that, in that regard I give most of Bhaskar's and GomeDome's posts & comments high marks. It's remarkable that these two gentlemen grew up and live in opposite parts of the world & cultures, and yet are arriving at similar cocnlusions through thought & research. While objecting is everyone's right, and God knows that I'm not shy of that, rational & considerate dialogue is mandatory, especially in a well-read site like this. Obvioulsy, these comments are intended for all, including myself.
posted by
ash_pradhan
on May 5, 2009 at 10:42 AM
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onwingsoflove - you are suggesting that I read a post by "Redstatesman"?
Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to that type of moronic drivel?
You can't be serious . . . . . wait a minute, . . . maybe you are serious?
posted by
gomedome
on May 5, 2009 at 10:11 AM
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Re: ...................to zenmom
Hey zen, when you find your said "club" ofj yours, bop YOURSELF over the head with it. Perhaps you'll knock some sense into yourself that way.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 5, 2009 at 9:25 AM
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Re: onwingsoflove - ". . .the US (which was founded on Christ),"
I would suggest you read the blog "Separation of Church and State?" posted by Redstatesman.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 5, 2009 at 9:17 AM
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onwingsoflove - ". . .the US (which was founded on Christ),"
I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing. My knowledge of the history of your country is not overly extensive but I do know that the first settlers to North America were motivated by two primary factors: escape from religious persecution and economic opportunity. I also know that the name (or word) Christ does not appear anywhere in any of your country's founding documents. The only way that a person can say such a thing is by a revisionist perspective. Or in other words: you have to re-write history to make a statement such as: ". . . the US (which was founded on Christ), "
The elevation of the importance of Jesus Christ in regards to personal salvation is a post protestant reformation biblical interpretation. It was not prevalent during the formation of your country, nor did your brand of evangelical protestantism exert near the influence during your country's early years that you are implying it did. Historically your suggestion is groundless, it is merely a catch phrase of the modern era.
Whether you like it or not, you live in a secular democracy with a clearly defined separation of church and state. Non Christians living in a secular democracy have the same rights as any other citizens to develop and define social norms, traditions and influence a country's national identity.
posted by
gomedome
on May 5, 2009 at 8:55 AM
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loony, it shouddabin.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on May 5, 2009 at 8:51 AM
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Yeah gomedome
Funny though, I couldn't agree more with you on this. Hypocrisy abounds, so to the whopppers, they need to be told ~ 'Hey, sorry, I offended you, but then maybe you needed to be offended'. Looney bopping mallets are to be kept in readiness
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on May 5, 2009 at 8:49 AM
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Bhaskar.ing - I remember at a very young age trying to figure that one out
Our species was all so wicked and displeased the big guy so much that he wiped everything out with a flood to start all over again. This sort of dispells the idea of omnipotence in a being that could make such a glaring mistake in creating such wicked little heathens, but okay, the point I guess was more focusing on the failings of mankind.
Then our species apparently doesn't learn anything from this and starts annoying the big guy once again. So the omnipotent creator of all that exists, lends us his son so that we can torture and kill him as a repayment for this behavior?
I stil remember a resounding "Huh" at the time I was told this whopper.
posted by
gomedome
on May 5, 2009 at 8:31 AM
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Re: onwingsoflove and preacher43 - you are both kidding right?
I'll pony up to that post, I didn't write it, I don't know who did, I did post it of course, but the point of it was not one of superiority, it was simply stating that, if you are going to come to the US (which was founded on Christ), then don't complain about it when you get here. It would be like me going to a place I know I hate to eat, and then complaining about the food once I got there. I hope you see my point.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 5, 2009 at 8:09 AM
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gomedome
Christians, followers of Christ, did him to a most horrible death. Their hands were red with the blood of Christ. So the very opposite psychology happened: Pray and owe allegiance to him, to be absolved. I cringe whenever I hear that Christ gave his blood to save mankind. Then it is "listen, you lowly mortals, it's either my way or no way". Psychopathic, to me.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on May 5, 2009 at 8:02 AM
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ZenMom - sorry about the little venting session I had with chucklehead on
your post.
I just couldn't let it ride. He was attempting to compare my blocking him after years of receiving ridiculously insulting comments from him, with people that block those whom they disagree with.
Yes, it may call for a bigger club. We seem to be experiencing an infestation (again).
posted by
gomedome
on May 5, 2009 at 7:55 AM
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onwingsoflove and preacher43 - you are both kidding right?
One of you has a recent post telling your own citizens to leave the country if they are not willing to measure up to your ideals, while the other has a recent post that through speculation arrives at a negative conclusion as to the motives of those who present an opposing religious viewpoint. How are these things not assuming a position of superiority?
I will however give both of you credit for being polite in your comments (so far), a tendency that is rare amongst those calling themselves Christians.
posted by
gomedome
on May 5, 2009 at 7:49 AM
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GD - I do believe I am going to need a BIGGER CLUB.
posted by
ZenMom
on May 5, 2009 at 7:48 AM
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I would just like to say i am no better than the next person i feel we are all equal, even though there is those that do not feel the same way i respect your blogs and you sir i hope you have a great day.
posted by
preacher43
on May 5, 2009 at 7:27 AM
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I don't claim to be superior to anyone, infact, I believe Im the lowest of the low, I'm nothing without Jesus' saving grace, I in my own self deserve nothing but Hell, but I'm so glad He saved me and had mercy on a wretch like me.
posted by
onwingsoflove
on May 5, 2009 at 7:26 AM
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