Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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Unicorn
I'm sorry that I misperceived your tone toward each other and I'm glad that I was wrong about that.
posted by
Inkling
on November 22, 2003 at 1:22 PM
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inkling
Ariala and I are not in hostile territory. There is no hostility between her and I. Once again you are assuming.
However I agree that it is like spliting hairs as you stated. But I truly wish you wouldn't assume that I am offended or that Ariala and I are mad at each other, she happens to be a friend of mine for some time now.
posted by
PastorB
on November 22, 2003 at 7:50 AM
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I suppose it can't hurt to add my two cents to this debate
Personally, I agree with Unicorn that it's splitting hairs, and one of my pet peeves is Christians getting divided by side issues that have nothing to do with the message of the gospel. However, I do understand the depth of importance Ariala attributes to a literal seven-day creation. I'm split in the middle on this one, which is rare for me on moral issues, but quite common for me on theological issues (maybe because I'm not a Biblical scholar). Anyhow, a point in Ariala's favor that hasn't been addressed is that though the earth is believed to be very old (as indicated by carbon dating methods), it is possible that God did create the the world in a literal seven days and just made it look old. After all, nothing is impossible with God. On the other hand, God transcends time so this question of measurements of time may be a moot point--though I'm not exactly sure why God would have included it in the creation account if it didn't mean anything. As you can see I'm torn on this. The depressing thing is that old earth creationists and young earth creationists are at odds with each other instead of being united in their belief that God created the earth, regardless of how long it took him. I know they have their reasons, but I don't like the way Ken Hamm (young earth) rails against his fellow Christian Hugh Ross (old earth) who is a cosmologist. If they put their work together (which is what I do with it), they would have a more powerful case. This kind of divisiveness over less important issues is exactly what Satan (hope you don't mind me mentioning him here, Kooka) wants--unity among Christians what threatens him most. Even what's going on here between Unicorn and Ariala...it started out as a reasoned discussion but quickly deteriorated into hostility between them. Please kiss and make up.
posted by
Inkling
on November 21, 2003 at 11:00 PM
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I'm enjoying this
Of all the people to have this debate, with me not being one of them.
"You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy"
Anywho, if you follow my logic where a day to God is a billion years (Give a take a million) then we are right here and now in the 7th day. So what does that do to the commandment? Well I would say it means we need to treat our whole lives that way. I never understood where the idea that you can't work on the sabbath came from. It says nothing about taking the day off. Someone just wanted to be lazy for a day. Using my logic, every moment of your life is during the sabbath and there fore should be kept holy.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 21, 2003 at 4:25 PM
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to understand better
go read my new blog in footprints. I must go now, going to have surgery. have a blessed day all
posted by
PastorB
on November 21, 2003 at 1:53 PM
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ariala
I bet you thought it missed my attention, but what's this about "focusing, meditating and thinking real hard" to get something? No wonder I don't have my Cadilac materialized yet, I didn't focus hard enough>don't tell me you rerally buy that stuff? Is that how you got to be number one, you materialized your way there?
As far as the days; like Leo and I say, I'll ask God when I get there.
posted by
PastorB
on November 21, 2003 at 1:51 PM
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Unicorn, you said it didn't matter which day...I was just stating that the
day is specifically mentioned in God's 10 Commandment Law. If you say the 10 Commandments are still in affect today and then say it doesn't matter which day, I see a contradiction. See commandment 4. I don't mean to pick on you. But, since you're a minister of God, I believe I have the right to ask you these questions. I apologize if you're Catholic, and believe the Pope had the authority to change God's law from Sat. to Sun., but I know you're not Catholic. They claim the change as their own. We've been thru this before, so I guess I should just stop now. I will stop. But just be consistent....
posted by
Ariala
on November 21, 2003 at 1:28 PM
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OMGOSH
I never said the Law of God doesn't matter anymore! I'm really tired of being misquoted and misunderstood.
Kooka, you did a good job with your post. And I STILL agree with you.
posted by
PastorB
on November 21, 2003 at 1:23 PM
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Unicorn? Who cares? I believe God cares and that's why it's in His
10 Commandments. He only sanctified one day in seven. You can choose whatever day you want, but be aware only one has been made holy. Anyway, I know you don't want to argue anymore than I do, but be very careful about teaching people that the law of God doesn't matter anymore. The new covenant does not get rid of thou shalt not kill, steal, commit adultery, disobey your parents, break the seventh-day Sabbath and take the Lord's name in vain, etc.
posted by
Ariala
on November 21, 2003 at 1:16 PM
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you understand me wrong
What I mean when I say what difference does it make is yes, it's important, but why base our faith on it. It doesn't matter the time it took, what matters is that GOD DID IT AND PEOPLE AT LEAST BELIEVE THAT. I would rather have someone at least believe the fact that God did create the earth rather than have them dispute the theological stuff. As long as people are at least in agreement on the basics, the theology can come later. And who are any of us to say what God did or meant, only He knows. As far as for the Sabbath, if you want to look at it technically, Saturday is the true Sabbath. But who cares, at least pick a day to worship and in reality, every day should be the sabbath; i.e.; a day to worship.
posted by
PastorB
on November 21, 2003 at 1:09 PM
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Unicorn, it makes all the difference in the world. The 10 Commandments
for example mention keeping the seventh-day holy, and if it's based on 1,000 years, we obviously have a problem. If you can't take the creation story literally, then you begin to pick and choose sections of the Bible that you want, saying that "this means this" and "that means that" when in fact, the Bible is very clear what it means. It specifically explains what sort of day God was talking about in Gen. 1. It had nothing to do with a thousand years. I am surprised at you.
posted by
Ariala
on November 21, 2003 at 12:50 PM
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Ariala------- yes God can do anything He choses
the word of God says that a day is like a thousand and a thousand like a day. Some parts of the bible remember are not for us to understand and know all things yet. Besides, who cares anyway? What difference does it make if it took him 7 days, 7 years, 7 seconds; the fact is; HE CREATED IT (THE EARTH).
posted by
PastorB
on November 21, 2003 at 12:45 PM
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kooka, ummm, read Genesis, dear. Gen. 1:5 starts the cycle of day and night
producing a 24 hour cycle. Even non-theologians recognize that, come on! Yes, God does concern Himself with time. The whole chapter of Genesis one talks about first, second, third and up to seventh day. It lists it out specifically. "And on the seventh day God ended His work that He had made and he rested on the seventh day...and God BLESSED the seventh day, and sanctified it (or made it holy)."
I can't imagine anyone missing the points of day and night.
posted by
Ariala
on November 21, 2003 at 12:16 PM
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Ariala
Where did you get that from?
It is not in the Bible, I know that much.
A day, a month or a year are all irrelevant at the beginning of the Bible. For any of that to be there, there would need a form of referance and there is not. They do not talk of seasons or phases of the moon. I can not see God paying any attention to such things. Keeping track of time is a creation of man.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 21, 2003 at 12:00 PM
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They were literal days. You underestimate the power of God's Word. Unlike
us, He can speak anything into existence...while we need to focus, meditate and think real hard before it materializes.
On the seventh-day (a 24 hour period) as defined from "even to even" -- sunset to sunset -- God commanded His creation (I might add there was no Jew yet) to keep the Sabbath. It was not a day for a year principle here (that's usually in prophecy). Obviously he didn't ask them to not work for 7000 years. People have no idea what God can create in a second, let alone seven literal days.
posted by
Ariala
on November 21, 2003 at 8:11 AM
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Every once in awhile
I have to shock people! lol. No seriously, it was a good post, well written and made a good point. Believe it or not, I was not born just to argue. I can acutually be a very agreeable person. Sometimes.
posted by
PastorB
on November 21, 2003 at 7:57 AM
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Wow
That was unexpected.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 20, 2003 at 4:56 PM
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I have to tend to
agree with you for the most part on that. No one really knows except for God. His word says one day is like a thousand, and a thousand like one. So......
Good post.
posted by
PastorB
on November 20, 2003 at 3:54 PM
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