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Sunnybeach7 -Re: I don't think anyone should have to be without healthcare.
One thing that is never discussed is what would happen with such a system if your country was faced with a a pandemic. We've had some recent scares including SARS and Bird Flu, the potential for a widespread outbreak of increasingly virolent strains of viruses is always present. What happens to a country running a health care system on health insurance and hospitals working on a for profit basis?
posted by
gomedome
on November 7, 2008 at 9:45 PM
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cantey_1975 - I don't agree with that statement used out of context but I
do not feel it is innacurate when referring to for profit healthcare.
US citizens are basically being screwed over, routinely facing financial hardships sometimes to the point of being ruined and even dying as a direct result of a health care system that is run on a third world model. In this context and considering that most proponents of health care reform in your country have been from the left of the political spectrum, I feel the statement is accurate. It is inconceivable to everyone but Americans to allow health care to be run on a for profit model by segments of the private sector. This is a system that cannot escape the inevitable of placing a dollar value on human life. . . that is something that most people would refer to as "unholy"
posted by
gomedome
on November 7, 2008 at 9:40 PM
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FineYoungSinger - Rush Limbaugh really is nothing more than a shock jock
He is the embodiment of the sorry about your luck mentality so prevalent amongst social conservatives. I have listened to him twice, I found it so offensive to my Canadian ears that I had to turn it off.
posted by
gomedome
on November 7, 2008 at 9:28 PM
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katray4 - Re: Unfortunately, as you saw with your friend, Gomedome,
It really is only a matter of collective will that is needed to change the current system. I see all proponents of extending access to health care in the USA talking about health insurance however. There is quite a difference between universal health care and health care based on insurance. Health care based on insurance has two "for profit" vehicles standing between the patient and the health care professional. Those being the hospital or institution working on a for profit basis and the health insurance provider also working on a for profit basis. It is no wonder that costs are so high.
There of course are a myriad of reasons why this system is used in the USA and in no other industrialized countries, many of which have nothing to do with religious beliefs and much more to do with simple profit. But I do notice this peculiar alignment of the some members of the Christian right as you allude to in your comment, that somehow produces people able to utilize their religious beliefs to justify their irrational position of denying others health care.
posted by
gomedome
on November 7, 2008 at 9:24 PM
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kooka_lives - Re: Lives are very important to them
I'm all for free market systems, capitolism and unimpeded enterprise within a democratic system but there are some things in life we can petition our governments to oversee for the well being of everyone. I've mentioned before how housing, if subjected to an unbridled free market system, can produce large segments of of the populace that are disenfranchised.
Healthcare based on a for profit model can be even worse in this regard. What for example, would happen to a country with a for profit health care system that is faced with a serious pandemic? Basically, they would have a large segment of their population die off for want of money and likely face a breakdown of civil order in the process.
posted by
gomedome
on November 7, 2008 at 9:11 PM
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I don't think anyone should have to be without healthcare.
I would also agree that it is wrong for someone to be ruined financially do to the costs.
Many people probably end up homeless that way.
It could happen to anyone at any time. All you need is some horrible disease or something to ruin your life (and those who would be deemed financially responsible for you) forever.
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on November 7, 2008 at 3:09 PM
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Re: Unfortunately, as you saw with your friend, Gomedome,
that comment was one of the most ignorant, bigoted things I have ever read. Seriously, where do you get this kind of drool from?: "there is an unholy alliance between Big Business and the far right."
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 7, 2008 at 2:29 PM
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Re: two words:
cantey: HEAR HERE. Rush Bigmouth needs to be banned from the airwaves, and his "Dittoheads" deprogrammed by psycologists specializing in combating cult mentalities.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 7, 2008 at 1:30 PM
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Unfortunately, as you saw with your friend, Gomedome,
having health insurance plus savings is no guarantee against financial ruin in this country. But, UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR A CHRISTIAN NATION?? Oh my, the hated sinners just might live then....(gays, urban dwellers, atheists, Muslims, anybody different in culture or religion, on and on..)..this is what I've heard from people I know who proscribe to this hypocrisy of Christianity..and the health care system here is for-profit big, big business (from the insurance and drug industries to hospitals, clinics, fancy doctor groups)
and there is an unholy alliance between Big Business and the far right. But I do think change is in the air, as embattled middle class followers of the faith are only reaping piles and piles of medical bills from the business end..:)...self interest usually,
eventually overcomes faith based ignorance, as evidenced by our election results.
posted by
Katray2
on November 7, 2008 at 11:49 AM
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Lives are very important to them
Until it start costing THEM money.
They care about life and all people and so on, until they are asked to make actual, real sacrifices for other people. Once they have to give their 'hard earned' money to help others out, that is where they get upset. To me it shows they are great at putting a price tag on the lives of other people.
When I was out of work a few years back I had the joy of trying to deal with the welfare health care system. It is a joke. I am just glad that nothing serious happened to anyone in my family during that time, because most likely we would have ended up being screwed big time.
MY uncle died a few years back of cancer. When he first got it he was unemployed and could not afford healthcare. He kept going to the free clinics and being told he just had the flu and so on. No one would run any tests. Well as soon as he got a job and got healthcare, they ran tests and found he had cancer, which had be given lots of time to spread. If they had found the cancer a year earlier, he might still be alive today and my cousin might still have a father.
I know I am not the only one with such stories.
And even now with healthcare, I can't afford to do much. My youngest son had his tonsils taken out at the beginning of the year and I've still not figured out how to pay for it. His quality of life was greatly raised by us doing that, because they were bad enough that it did keep him from eating right, so we really had no choice. But now I am trying to figure out how to budget all the bills from just that one time in the hospital. and it really is crazy to just how much we still got charged after insurance.
But those good old Christians are more concerned with making a little extra money than helping the people in their country be healthier. If life is so important that we can't have abortions, because it is wrong in the eyes of God, then should we not also do all we can to make sure people are as healthy as possible and living as long as possible by giving them access to the best health care possible?
I guess life is something we all shod be given, but a high quality of life should only be reserved for those who have the wealth.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 7, 2008 at 11:16 AM
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two words:
Rush Limbaugh.
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 7, 2008 at 10:59 AM
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