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Bhaskar.ing - thanx for stopping in
posted by
gomedome
on November 7, 2008 at 8:09 AM
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Troosha - just like religious beliefs, it's taken years of conditioning to
develop the fear and misconceptions of socialist aspects of governance.
All of the successful democracies in the world utilize some aspects of socialism as a means of providing for their citizenry. Where socialism fails miserably is when it is used as a governing framework, even redistribution of wealth must be applied sparingly, primarily as a social safety net (i.e. welfare) or as preventative measures promoting public health and preventing crime. In modern history we have learned that the capitolist system applied within a democratic framework of governance is by far the best system we have but it is not perfect, it produces losers as well as winners while at times, especially during tough economic periods, disenfranchises large segments of the populace.
The answer then becomes prudently applied regulation but only for aspects of our lives where we are all vulnerable. Housing, utilizing the primary residence exemption against capitol gains and universal healthcare are the most obvious. Government's role can be clearly defined in these areas as providing a social safety net for the disadvantaged, keeping its citizenry healthy and providing oversight, as well as facilitation of home ownership. A national energy program is vital as well.
Is this what people are afraid of? I'd be more concerned about being financaily ruined or even dying if I became suddenly ill without the means to access healthcare, or losing my house during inevitable economic downturns . . . the list goes on.
posted by
gomedome
on November 7, 2008 at 7:58 AM
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gomedome
Why is it that so many people have this deeply rooted fear (or misconception) that the proper distribution of wealth and yes, even taxation, has some similarity to communism. And “socialism” – God forbid we should ever embrace the notion that there is enough to go around (if well charted and with intelligent implementation). The four letter word…shift gears, people… it’s an 8 letter word. Progress
posted by
Troosha
on November 7, 2008 at 7:07 AM
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gomedome
I fully agree with your "Tuesday's election were the very best thing that could possibly happen to the USA", and I would also hope, for the world as well.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on November 6, 2008 at 9:06 PM
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cantey_1975 - those are the important things
He has a monumental set of tasks ahead of him and is not likely to come close to what are in reality, inflated expectations but he does have a number of things going for him. He is extremely intelligent and well liked internationally (so far). If he can unite and be creative, there is the very real possibility that he will accomplish a lot of what he is setting out to do. Only time will tell if the usual destructive forces of self interest and party politics will impede the country's progress to any great degree.
I think the first thing he should do is walk across the aisle and hand McCain an important role in the process.
posted by
gomedome
on November 6, 2008 at 12:14 PM
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Gome
I appreciate you saying those things.
One of the observations of this election is indeed the reception of Obama around the world as the new U.S. leader. It is indeed inspiring and encouraging as it seems the the perception of this country is on a positive trend as a result. There is a strong flush of exitement and I actually feel pretty good about it all. The man has a big job ahead of him and he needs all the support he can get, from both sides. This country REALLY needs to unify and Obama seems to be having that effect, so far.
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 6, 2008 at 11:20 AM
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Sunnybeach7 - the "talking about things they don't understand" has been
prevalent on this site lately.
Taxation is generally viewed by working folks as payroll deductions but there are a number of avenues for government revenue through taxation that can be implemented within society. A federal VAT tax or value added tax is used in most other industrialized countries as are user fees. The value of both is that they can be implemented in such a way as to focus on specific income groups, specific industries, or within selected segments of society.
At the root of these inevitable changes, somewhere along the line the mentality that a completely unregulated open market economy is somehow the only way to do business, has to change.
posted by
gomedome
on November 6, 2008 at 10:21 AM
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cantey_1975 - you're not really a "fundie"
Though you may envision yourself as one because of the alignment of your beliefs. You are too sensible for that and you actually practice what you preach. I am speaking more to the Pat Robertsons of this world who view the election outcome as a setback to their longing for a US theocracy.
We should keep in mind that this is still less than two days after what has been to some people a bitter defeat. I agree that many of the same dynamics of 2,000 are in place and that both sides can be just as guilty of demonizing a president they do not like but this is a bit different. Can you ever remember not only your own citizens in such great numbers being so happy about the outcome but the international community as well? I cannot. I can't think of one other instance where non US citizens cheered and held parties because of the results of a US election.
posted by
gomedome
on November 6, 2008 at 10:09 AM
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myrrhage - what you describe tongue in cheek has a ring of truth to it
At least amongst some people. These are aspects of the isolationist, self serving worldview of some folks claiming to be Christians that I have never fully understood. I remember a discussion about universal health care a few years ago on this site. A couple of fundies joined in and insisted that they would fight any universal healthcare proposals in their country with their dying breath. But of course they had health insurance themselves, go figure.
I've referred to this mentality as "Sorry about your luck" Christianity. It envelopes the thinking of some people from their beliefs of being amongst a select group chosen for salvation, to all other aspects of their worldview. It is a way of thinking so far removed from the philosophies of their central icon that it is puzzling how people cannot see the inconsistencies in their views versus their beliefs.
posted by
gomedome
on November 6, 2008 at 9:57 AM
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I, as a "fundie"
don't want, and never did want, a "fundie" nation. No genuine christian has any desire to have christianity forced on a society. Yes, I vote in accordance with my convictions and that usually leads to the republican side, and when that "fundie" canidate happens to prevail, then the people have spoken. But when the nation votes for a canidate that I do not agree with and that candidate prevails, I'm fine with that too because again, the people have spoken. I think Obama might very well to a fine job and as I have stated since the election results came in, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. One thing I do not wish to see, are those who are dissappointed in the election results becoming bitter and attempting to assasinate the charectar of Obama and demonize his attempts to govern every step of the way out of hateful spite, as many who opposed Bush have done since the day he took office in 2000. That has weakened this nation and what I find comical now, is those who did these very things are now lecturing us on how to behave towards Obama, even though for the most part, the conservatives have shown graciousness in losing albeit with a tone of palpable dissappointment which is understandable.
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 6, 2008 at 9:55 AM
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Gome,
People talk a lot about things they don't understand. And much of fear stems from not understanding.
From my view, taxes here have "always" increased. It seems to slip people's mind, the debt that was created due to this war.
More taxes for the rich don't bother me... but then again, I'm not rich. :-)
In my opinion(and this is just my opinion), the incredibly wealthy can afford the taxes. Aside from some charitable contributions, which they are allowed to deduct, they don't do that much for this country.
They horde a lot of money. And when they do spend money, they spend it extravagantly, not on regular stuff that keeps small businesses running in this country.
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on November 6, 2008 at 9:13 AM
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Excellent points, Gomedome, but I think we've got it all wrong. See, Jesus taught that we must hoard all of our money to our individual selves, and take no responsibility at all for our fellow human beings. We must self-preserve at all costs. We must give all our tax breaks to big corporations who send our jobs overseas, and pull funding from any program that might accidentally feed a gay person, or a woman who might possibly have an abortion, or a witch, or anyone different, or less powerful, or scarier than ourselves. I mean, giving to others, sharing prosperity would be, goshdarnit, say it ain't so, just so un-Christian.
Oh, wait. I'm thinking of the other guy. (Thanks, Palin)
posted by
myrrhage
on November 6, 2008 at 8:55 AM
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