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No gomedome, I am not in any way trying to imply a group of mentally ill
Satanists existing somewhere becuse, if I did so, it will be contradictory to my contention of God as an impersonal energy source. The word "Followers" tend to give an impression that they tend to follow some leader or a propagator. What I meant is that which has come to be identified with Satanism (and I have no separate Satan of the Christian belief), are the seeds of their own natures from birth which they are bound to follow helplessly. Hope it is clear, and if any further elaboration is required I'm willing to do full post on the subject.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on October 20, 2008 at 9:57 PM
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Bhaskar.ing - God as an impersonal energy source actually makes some sense
I would even expand the definition to include inter-generational communication via DNA code imprinting. There is something that makes mice for example, dig little holes, seek out certain types of food, mate at certain times of the year and generally know without being taught, all that is involved in being a mouse.
We call it instinct and dismiss it as a given but my question is how does it work? Is this knowledge transmitted via the energy you describe?
In your closing line you wander into the realm of misconception when you say this: "Followers, in the practising of Satanism, follow out their own natures. It's a kind of extreme mental ill-health, and incurable." my question is what followers? You are implying a group of incurable mentally ill Satanists exist somewhere? Maybe you could clarify.
posted by
gomedome
on October 20, 2008 at 9:28 AM
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BC-A - as I have asked anyone who has commented suggesting that there are
real Satanic human sacrifices taking place in this world, give us one verifiable example.
To my knowledge, the case of John List had nothing whatsoever to do with Satanism, it is not even mentioned in his case history, nor did he murder anyone ritualisticly. Instead he shot his victims, who were all family members, in the head systematically.
I can list 2 cases of murders associated with Satanism but it is the Christian version of Satan and the murders were not ritualistic. There probably are some real cases out there somewhere, it's a scary thought to think that a widespread social anxiety is premised on nothing concrete . . . but I have yet to find one.
posted by
gomedome
on October 20, 2008 at 9:18 AM
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Gomedome
The Satan or the devilish Beelzebub and others are all creations of the human mind. Heaven is projected as an extension of all happiness that we are deprived of in life; and hell, its opposite. Christianity and Islam are inveterate subscribers of this idea. The Vedic Hinduism, and not the stupid 'political' Hinduism we have nowadays, never even once in their 18 Puranas mention of Satan, or Shaitan, as Muslims call it. This is because they (the ancient Vedantins) acknowledged only one supreme power, energy - would be a better word - the all-inclusive of good and bad. God, to them, was not a bearded guy sitting high up in the skies espousing only 'good'. By this token you cannot ascribe Tsumamis as cruelty of God, or say "inexplicable are the ways of God". Sometimes I wonder that if God is not omnipotent, then the more likely candidate for it is Satan. This means that the evil (devil) forces are stronger than the good (god) forces, but the fact remains that you cannot segregate or categorize energy. Electricity is good, but not if you accidentally touch it; that doesn't make a current good or bad. Followers, in the practising of Satanism, follow out their own natures. It's a kind of extreme mental ill-health, and incurable.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on October 20, 2008 at 8:47 AM
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In addition to your data other Satanist activities involve human sacrifices. In example the John List case. He committed murder for the ritual. In this way he merely showed himself a true believer within the theory of social psychology. Take care, BCA *** Bill*s Wave:: Blog on
posted by
BC-A
on October 20, 2008 at 8:17 AM
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Re: Christianity created Satan -- if Christianity had not created Satan, there
Xeno-x - Mythology does breed mythology as you put it and it also creates a great number of social problems.
posted by
gomedome
on October 20, 2008 at 8:03 AM
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Christianity created Satan -- if Christianity had not created Satan, there
would be no Satan worshippers.
But there are.
A son of a friend of mine who is pretty strict about his religion sort of "rebelled" against his Dad and opened proclaimed his worship of Satan.
Mythology breeds mythology.
posted by
Xeno-x
on October 20, 2008 at 7:56 AM
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ammon - no one is excepting juvenile vandalism, I am merely attempting to
get you to add something of substance to your words.
Again, this is what you said: "Even if Satan does not exist, purposeful evil is conducted by humans in his name and on his behalf." . . . are you now trying to say that juvenile vandalism is purposeful? The worst cast of vandalism in my area was just a few years ago, some kids broke all of the windows in one of the local schools and spray painted swastikas on the walls. I doubt that we are going to see an outbreak of white supremacist groups forming because of it. We can presume that swastikas were used to deface a public school because the perpetrators knew that the symbol is abhorrent to the society they live in.
As I suggested both in this post and in comments here, substantiating claims of Satanism being a great social evil are completely overblown, a point to which you have agreed but then you set about to "overblow" it. Another aspect of the imaginary Satan claims is how easily people confuse Le Vie Satanism with the Christian version of Satan. They routinely speak of the existing churches of Satan, most of which which have as their central icon the Pagan version of Satan, yet every last example they give of actions perpetrated on behalf of Satan utilize the Christian version. Why do you think that is? . . . which leads to my next post.
posted by
gomedome
on October 20, 2008 at 6:40 AM
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Gomedome………
Your blog introduced teenage Satanism and most all of the examples I’ve seen of it are juvenile, but nonetheless very serious offenses. So I see no reason at all why the numerous juvenile examples should be excepted. And, by the way, my discussion relating to the Catholic church was a separated comment concerning the proliferation of evil and was not intended as a specific example of Satanism.
posted by
ammon
on October 19, 2008 at 11:54 PM
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Re: Gomedome……..certainly I agree with you that much of it is overblown
ammon - that is what I expected you to do; dance around the issue without addressing the challenge I have put to you: You stated: "Even if Satan does not exist, purposeful evil is conducted by humans in his name and on his behalf." Just name one documented example. Outside of juvenile vandalism, it is very tough to come up with more than one or two examples. The Catholic Church and their chronicles of exorcism could not possibly be a worse example. You should take the time to read some of their so called chronicles of exorcism and one thing becomes abundantly clear, they are the cause of the need for their exorcism ritual. It is a placebo, the symptoms are almost always bogus or the result of mental illness.
So far what you have offered is what most people who would want to argue that Satanism is some great social evil have done; Utilize anecdotal evidence and mix in the real problems of juvenile rebellion and vandalism as the only examples you can think of. Where no one can dispute that some of the things you describe take place, their causal factors are much more deep rooted than acting on behalf of, or in the name of, a mythical entity.
Truly, guarding one's self against evil so that it doesn't "sort of take them over and cause them do all sorts of evil", is to me nothing more than drivel derived from the mentalities used to sell religion and a belief in God. I'm going to end this conversation with one suggestion; come up with something real or concrete other than teenage vandals and hearsay.
posted by
gomedome
on October 19, 2008 at 9:21 PM
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Gomedome……..certainly I agree with you that much of it is overblown
if for no other reason than the fact that our media tends to amplify these types of stories…..and it would be easy to make a long list of the purposeful mischief that has occurred…….actually horrific things like grave robberies, animal mutilations, and even murder……often with Satanic graffiti……things that often seem like initiation rituals………a few years ago we had a string of graveyard violations and cat slayings in this area……..and if the graffiti doesn’t reference Satan its often one of the many other demons from this LIST
There are people in the world who become inflicted with evil and conduct horrible things. The chronicles of the Catholic Church include many exorcisms involving unexplained situations denoted as possessions. Truly, if one doesn’t guard themselves against evil, it can sort of just take them over and cause them to do all sorts of evil.
posted by
ammon
on October 19, 2008 at 8:23 PM
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Re: Actually I was personally in a bookstore in the Florida Mall
ammon - there is not much to argue in what you say, other than you could not possibly know what the kid was up to. I do however agree, the truth is that we do not have any published statistics of any real value. This of course begs the question: what might people such as those who authored the website I link to in this post be basing their information on? What are those who are attempting to ratchet up our collective anxiety basing their warnings on?
Even when you close by saying this: "Even if Satan does not exist, purposeful evil is conducted by humans in his name and on his behalf." . . . give me just one verifiable example and even if you can, then try for two examples. In the effort, you will inevitably illustrate my point that most of what is perceived as a grave problem is overblown.
Finally, a point I have made many times is that the proliferation of the primitive mythology that all of this is based upon is the real root of the problem.
posted by
gomedome
on October 19, 2008 at 7:59 PM
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Actually I was personally in a bookstore in the Florida Mall
when a teenager entered in black Satanic garb and asked the clerk for a Satanic Bible. From the way the kid was dressed, this looked like some type of initiation ritual. When the clerk could not produce a copy of the Satanic Bible the kid became abusive, but left before security could get him (or before I could even begin to lecture him about the merits of being good….LOL)……….I don’t think any published statistics that you find or cite are going to very well represent the extent to which Satanic activity is occurring……it is quite openly displayed among many rock bands, gang culture, and increasingly among teenage youth……….additionally, dismissing the problem under the pretense that Satan is mythological doesn’t solve anything because it is not the tangible physical creature that is confronting our youth, but rather the spiritual, psychological, cultic, antagonistic, and emotional evils proliferated by such activities………Even if Satan does not exist, purposeful evil is conducted by humans in his name and on his behalf.
posted by
ammon
on October 19, 2008 at 7:37 PM
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mysteria - I find it discouraging that so many people still subscribe to
this type of thinking in this day and age without questioning it.
We've seen many posts right here on Blogit where someone begins describing the fictional misdeeds perpetrated by fictional groups of people. What I don't understand is how so many people can accept as fact that which should obviously be viewed as fiction. For example; the website I link to speaks of repeatedly seeing news stories of abductions and Satanic ritualistic abuse. What news are they watching?
I've never seen anything like that on the news. All I have ever seen are very rare stories of mentally imbalanced persons acting upon the mythology that all of this is based upon. The mythology itself effectively being the root cause. When all things associated with this fiction are examined, it becomes clear that the warnings of these things happening create an anxiety that is completely unecessary and subsequently that anxiety sometimes manifests itself.
posted by
gomedome
on October 19, 2008 at 5:53 PM
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Introspection in this directlion...
leaves me feeling lots of things. Astonished I would say sums it up. And with that thoughts along the lines of as a whole we have quite a way to go in the maturity department. I suspect this brand of mind will be one of the first to fall along the wayside on our way to higher states.
posted by
mysteria
on October 19, 2008 at 3:46 PM
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