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witenite3333 - that was hardly a personal attack
Though I will concede that guessing at what compels you to offer opinions that you cannot substantiate wanders into an area that could be construed as such. I don't need to attack anyone to justify myself or validate what I have said in response to you. I used facts, reality and logic to refute the misconceptions you mistakenly seem to think are valid.
The truth of the matter is that atheism being the motivation for the atrocious actions of the 3 infamous men you listed is a bogus argument (one of them was not even an atheist). Just as the insistence that the objections of atheists who are fed up with being characterized as evil is somehow an anti-God stance, is a bogus argument. And just as the suggestion that to not believe in God removes all hope from the individual and allows them to ignore their conscience is bogus.
These are statements derived from nothing more than the prejudice instilled in religious adherents by the propaganda utilized to sell them on, affirm and proliferate their beliefs.
posted by
gomedome
on September 19, 2008 at 12:26 PM
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Re: witenite3333 - you are attempting to use the "True Christian" argument
I find it sad that you go on a personal attack to justify yourself.
posted by
witenite3333
on September 19, 2008 at 6:31 AM
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witenite3333 - you are attempting to use the "True Christian" argument
to validate what is nothing more than an arrogance inherent in your beliefs.
By definition, any person that is an adherent to a religion that believes that Jesus Christ was the messiah and the son of God is a Christian . . . period. The fact that some people want to define what makes a person a "true" Christian, inevitably becomes a pointless exercise. All Christians think that they are "true" Christians, no matter which of the over 30,000 Christian sects they belong to worldwide. If you remember, I made a point of phrasing my comment regarding Hitler in a certain way. I said he was of a Christian background, I did not say he was a Christian.
Your attempts to justify the disparaging remarks, inconsistencies, errors and just plain bullshit that you put to print in your post and by insisting that so many atheists are anti-God is merely an extension of the same behavior pattern. Typical of those who think that they are "true" Christians, you seem to think that you have special priviledges in life. A right somehow bestowed upon you because you are able to adhere to the most ludicrous of ancient mythologies while others aren't buying it and aren't going to stand for being vilified because they aren't buying it. If you were to truly look at the world without bias, which I doubt you are capable of, you would see that the most disfunctional people in terms of social interaction and simple honesty are religious folks. . . . and that is what the atheists you are attempting to say are "anti-God" are actually objecting to. The assumption by people unable to overcome their social religious conditioning that others have to endure their perpetual nonsense is the objection.
posted by
gomedome
on September 18, 2008 at 10:48 PM
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Re: witenite3333 - Re: Now read what I said.
First I want to say that some of the things you say on your Blog are spot on and I agree with you 100%. There are 'nuts' out there whether they they use the 'Christian' message or the 'Islam' message or any other religious message. There are also nuts out there who use 'political' messages or there are the 'UFO' nuts or the 'conspiricy' nuts. There are plenty of nuts which ever way you look at it. However, that said, you like to target the 'Christian' nuts as do other supposed atheists here and all over the web. Now why is that?
From your comment
"First off "atheism" doesn't equate with "anti=God". Look the word up, it simply means that an individual does not believe that God exists." <=== Yes I know that but at the moment all over the web I have not yet found an atheist who is not 'anti-God'. So the meaning may be correct but the application certainly isn't.
"...and whether you like it or not, catholics are Christians." <--- There are some Catholics who are Christians however the Catholic Church is about as pagan as it can get. This is a misconception on the part of Atheists. Catholics are people who follow the Catholic Church not Christ. Heck there are protestants who are not Christians, Baptists who are not Christian. To put a general label on a certain group and then say Christian is exactly me saying that Atheists are Anti-God.
posted by
witenite3333
on September 18, 2008 at 8:53 PM
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Right on! I think this is a grand composition! sam
posted by
sam444
on September 16, 2008 at 12:31 PM
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witenite3333 - Re: Now read what I said.
I have read what you said in both your post and in your comments here and it seems that you are more than a little bit confused on a number of things.
First off "atheism" doesn't equate with "anti=God". Look the word up, it simply means that an individual does not believe that God exists. There are no associative philosophies or additional beliefs encompassed by this word's definition. It cannot by virtue of these realities be utilized as an underlying motivation for an individual's actions. That notion is nothing more than nonsensical religious propaganda, which it seems you are unable to discern . . . and whether you like it or not, catholics are Christians.
The remainder of your comments and the questions you pose are simply too simplistic for me to bother answering. Sorry, but I could not care less if you even read this blog, let alone do I want to influence your beliefs.
I simply want people like yourself; with outdated and unworkable philosophies, premised upon the nearly lunatic ravings of our primitive ancestors, to stop attempting to influence the rest of society to the degree that you do.
posted by
gomedome
on September 15, 2008 at 8:04 PM
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witenite
One of the points, I thik would be...living for the now. If now is all you have is that really how you want to spend your life? Being another Hitler?
I don't know of any athiests that have such goals and it doesn't sound fulfilling.
Hope? Why waste time hoping when you have life NOW...for a fact, is segrigation and killing people what you'd want out of life, honestly?
Is that what you are hoping for in your "afterlife" where you can have things "any way you want"?
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on September 15, 2008 at 6:11 PM
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Now read what I said.
Since we live such pointless lives tell me why I shouldn't be an Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin or Mao Ze Dong?
Did I say they were atheists? No I was pointing out WHY SHOULDN"T I live like them. You still haven't written a WHY. You just rehash the same old stuff without a WHY I am here and WHY I shouldn't be a selfish bastard. We live for 70 years then nothing according to atheism. WHY should I spend that time being a pawn of someone else. Why should I do anything for someone unless it benefits me greatly. Why should I live in the gutter for somebody else.
You still havn't provided a HOPE. A hope for MY future. Where is the HOPE in your future. One day you will die and then what? You hope that anyone cares about your thoughts, your writings. Do you think anyone will remember you 10 years after you die? 20 years, 100 years?
If you are happy with your lot in life then be happy - you are entitled to do whatever you want but why whinge about others who have something else to offer. You don't like the offer, ignore it.
posted by
witenite3333
on September 15, 2008 at 5:34 PM
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Just because Hiltler
attended a church (Catholic) when he was young does not make him a Christian or give him a Christian background. It just means he attended a church and he had a Roman Catholic background. From Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_beliefs
Adolf Hitler was brought up as a Roman Catholic. According to historian Bradley F. Smith, Hitler's father, though nominally a Catholic, was a freethinker, while his mother was a practicing Catholic. According to historian Michael Rissmann young Adolf was influenced in school by Pan-Germanism and began to reject the Church and Catholicism, receiving Confirmation only unwillingly. A boyhood friend reports that after Hitler had left home, he never attended Mass or received the Sacraments. Georg Ritter von Schönerer's writings and the written legacy of his Pan-German Away from Rome! movement, which agitated against the Roman Catholic Church at the end of the 19th century, may have influenced the young Adolf Hitler.
Further down it tells of his private talks (which activist atheists like to regard as not authentic)
There is less controversy about other statements. Joseph Goebbels notes in a diary entry in 1939: "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay." Albert Speer reports a similar statement: “You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"
Hitler used religion to suit his purposes. Religion enabled him to gather the masses and keep them. To say that Hitler was in any way Christian is deceitful. I take your point that he was not Anti God and therefore an Atheist however that was not the point of my Blog. The point was that if there was no accounting of my actions in this life then I can do anything I like and become LIKE Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin or Mao Ze Dong.
Sorry about the font. It auto changed on me and I can't change it back.
posted by
witenite3333
on September 15, 2008 at 5:19 PM
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Sunnybeach7 - there is definitely something to be said about a perspective
that is not preparing the individual for a mythical afterlife.
At least in the sense that the here and now, as well as what we make of our lives, has an elevated level of importance. The concept of do unto others etc. also seems to be fully grasped by those who do not have an imaginary third party that they think they are acting on behalf of or trying to gain the favor of. This simplest of reciprocal agreements can act as the fundamental framework for all of the other aspects of living with others. As well as contributing to society and leaving this earth as we found it when we got here.
posted by
gomedome
on September 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM
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Gome
Were it may be the case that an athiest "can" feel inclined to do whatever it is they may want or desire, I think an athiest is more inclined to see the "real" value in life, instead of some pre-conceived notion of a heaven and hell...and especially of a religous concept that says "do whatever you want...as long as you believe in blah, blah, or blah...you are still one lucky bastard that will go to heaven".
That is what makes the difference between athiests and religous "freaks" ...they can do whatever they want, including rape and kill others...yet if thet believe...they're still good enough for the big G!
People who would be considered non-beleivers, generally have a better respect for nature and our environment, as I have seen...as they understand that our future..our chilrens future,etc. Depends on how we take care of our surroundings.
(Sorry about bad spellings, inappropriate capitalizations and such...typing from the BlackBerry)
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on September 15, 2008 at 12:51 PM
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