Comments on I defy anyone to produce just one bit of credible evidence

Go to Religion in the Modern World - Add a comment - Go to I defy anyone to produce just one bit of credible evidence

ggXpress - you must indeed be the person of incredible awareness that you

imply you are.

To suggest that someone you know only to the extent of reading a bit of what they have posted online is "very like" someone that we can assume you have only read about in the papers or have seen on the TV news, makes you incredibly perceptive. A veritable psychic genius. . . or an idiot.

But I don't know enough about you to make the determination either way, you know, lacking the heightened awareness that you have and all, I only see someone that seems a lot like the legions of programmed automatons that have come before. Saying the same things, spewing the same nonsense and objecting to the same things, even though they have never considered for one second why they readily accept the things they believe.

Then as if this demonstration of programmed response is not enough, in "Pavlovian canine" fashion, they run through the paces of showing us all of the other things they respond to just like everyone else who is a carrier of the "sheeple" gene.

Then after this little demonstration, the real fun begins. Carriers of the sheeple gene are not all lost causes, some of them de-program quite nicely and become normal again. Regrettably, many never fully recover. Spot checks must always be injected into dialogue to see if progress is being made . . . here comes one now.......

Do you remember what your initial objections were when you started this series of comments?

posted by gomedome on July 27, 2008 at 12:37 PM | link to this | reply

Re: ggXpress - yeah, that's what I thought

A good suggest ! - Here in UK we have PM Gordon Brown - he's under the bed now - hope you can meet him there ( he's crumbled into the right corner) - he's very like you ! ?

posted by ggXpress on July 27, 2008 at 5:35 AM | link to this | reply

ggXpress - yeah, that's what I thought

You can't construct a decent argument, get past mildly offended sensibilities, or stick to the point but your inabilities to do so are entirely due to my shortcomings? Gee, I've never heard of anyone using that strategy before . . . and of course you alone have heightened awareness, at least in terms of a comparitive relationship to my awareness. Never heard that one before either . . wow, you sure put me in my place.

Now I'll have to go and hide under my bed again.

posted by gomedome on July 26, 2008 at 4:33 PM | link to this | reply

Re: ggXpress - so really what your series of comments amounts to is:

You know everything, so why write anything at all? Someone knows everything - it's amazing but, I'm not living in that direction. The life isn't experienced with your brain ... it's something more, called feelings and awareness.

posted by ggXpress on July 26, 2008 at 4:09 PM | link to this | reply

Re: "dark magic"

Luz_Briar - there are basically 3 types of Satanists; The first one is an imaginary straw man that religious folks have invented that envelops a number of henious practices such as ritual murder etc. and attributes these practices to any number of groups that aren't buying into the things that sell religion.  Generally speaking almost all of this type of Satanist is based on bullshit, misconception, lies and nonsense.

Then there are two main groups of actual Satanists with a few offshoots, which not so surprisingly bear no resemblence to the religious straw man. You can read about them: HERE

posted by gomedome on July 26, 2008 at 11:26 AM | link to this | reply

ggXpress - so really what your series of comments amounts to is:

You didn't like the way the question was asked and simply because you were posed with a question that challenges things that you have been conditioned to believe, you feel you have the right to assess the motives of the author and offer that in leu of an answer you do not have . . . . How am I doing so far?

posted by gomedome on July 26, 2008 at 10:55 AM | link to this | reply

Re: ggXpress - who suggested that I feel I own the truth?

To answer you about the heading: It was I who 'suggested' it - because you don't have to say it in directly words, it's the way you write about your opinions versus others.

Proof of magic - it depends of what you may call magic outside your focus on Harry Potter magic, but as you answered me: you haven't written about any other kind of magic, and proof about Harry Potter magic, to make you happy, I can say: I can't prove that, and - it's not my intetion to do it or use time on it. That's fiction.

posted by ggXpress on July 26, 2008 at 10:00 AM | link to this | reply

"dark magic"

satanists are an actual cult. have you heard of them? nothing "magical" about That.

posted by Luz_Briar on July 25, 2008 at 11:19 PM | link to this | reply

Gome,

To manifest favorable outcomes on certain objects or scenarios; one must first envision the concept, then take action in their minds to produce the favorable outcome. The action is initiated to signal those who may be listening, even if they or it reside outside of human perception.

Yes, I think you have the basic idea.

You form a sphere in your mind and then attempt to envelop it in the concept, while utilizing everything at your disposal to strengthen this effort.

Not exactly... My method... see them with my eyes, focus on intent, close my eyes (see them in my mind), focus on intent, see the sphere start to develop around them, in my mind, until they are within the protective barrier.

That sounds a lot like conditioning one's self to think positively, except it is wrapped up in a completely different package.

In a way, very much the same. Positive thinking was an original starting point for me...quite some time ago. It was like the beginning of my learning/experience.

Your package has decidedly more buttons and ribbons than mine has. I've simplified the concept to; actions in the physical world outweight those in any other realm by an exponential factor. Then when coupled with an attempt to do something, we can affect the outcome. 

You're very close here, I think. Though I would say more intent and belief is involved than just positive thinking.

You can positive think, but still kid yourself. You can wake up in the morning and positive think yourself into having a good day. But inside, you may feel that even with the positive thinking, there is a chance that something is going to come in and screw up your happy thoughts.

But if you put your time in to focus...and you really BELIEVE (the belief part is very important) that you are definitely, undeniably, absolutely going to have a great day...your chances of actually manifesting a great day have just improved drastically.

Stupid example maybe, but...

I think you get the gist.

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on July 25, 2008 at 10:01 PM | link to this | reply

Sunnybeach7 - I think I have it

I'll have to give it back to you in point form however because of time constraints, forgive me for that.

To manifest favorable outcomes on certain objects or scenarios; one must first envision the concept, then take action in their minds to produce the favorable outcome. The action is initiated to signal those who may be listening, even if they or it reside outside of human perception. You form a sphere in your mind and then attempt to envelop it in the concept, while utilizing everything at your disposal to strengthen this effort.

That sounds a lot like conditioning one's self to think positively, except it is wrapped up in a completely different package. Your package has decidedly more buttons and ribbons than mine has. I've simplified the concept to; actions in the physical world outweight those in any other realm by an exponential factor. Then when coupled with an attempt to do something, we can affect the outcome.  

posted by gomedome on July 25, 2008 at 7:32 PM | link to this | reply

Gome,

There is a good possibility you have lost me here. I really am not sure of exactly what you are saying.
Words...or sound? Though I do believe in sound, as in mantra and such, it wasn't really what I was referring to.

Let me try again...the circle, or maybe better described as a sphere is projected through visualization..like in meditation.

The purpose was determined by me, when I created it. There is no...um.."activation"..is that what you were asking?

The protection was established as I envisioned the sphere, and it's growth around them.
A spell isn't always put into words, or used solely as words. In my opinion, nothing will ever manifest with words alone...it takes focus/visualization.

Nothing manifests without first visualizing it. Everything is a constant thought process.

You wouldn't even get up to use the rest room without thinking about it first. Your body would tell you that you have a need, and your mind or consciousness would determine what you need to do, then you would manifest it.

I know I'm not explaining this well, and that is a bad example..but it's not something that is so easy to explain...not even so easy to understand.

I don't have all the answers, I constantly learn as I go along. One man's reality is often quite different from another's.

When something works...I just know it does. I can't tell you exactly "how" it does...just that it does. That being said...the focus and visualization hold major parts in manifestation...I believe.

So if it is not a spiritual being hearing and understanding the words (and actions) of a magic spell, then choosing to react to those words and actions . . . what else could possibly set the spell in motion?  

Spiritual being.. Me, you, us, everyone...we are the "spiritual being"...though that likely wouldn't be the words I would use. But I really don't have adequate words.

Also inadequate, but the best I can think of to describe it would be..the "thought patterns" set the spell in motion.  The universe, consciousness, or whatever word you might use for what we think is "out there" reflects our thoughts, when powerful enough, and manifests them.

 

 

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on July 25, 2008 at 6:49 PM | link to this | reply

Sunnybeach7 - bear with me on this but I have a question or two

So we're talking about a white light circle, or if you will excuse my simplifying of it, a sort of energy force field. Where I have a problem with it is in the mechanics of activating it. Seriously, now don't go away laughing but think about this for a minute.

We do know that there is nothing in the natural world outside of acoustic phenomena such as reverberation or echo, that can be actuated by sound. "Sound" would include the words used in a magic spell. If the words are not directed at a conscious entity who understands their meanings, then a natural phenomena outside of our perceptions must be responsible for the mechanics of making the spell happen . . . . are you with me so far? But this idea quickly disintegrates when we realize that no two individuals, outside of siblings, have similar tone and pitch in their voices.

So if it is not a spiritual being hearing and understanding the words (and actions) of a magic spell, then choosing to react to those words and actions . . . what else could possibly set the spell in motion?   

posted by gomedome on July 25, 2008 at 5:10 PM | link to this | reply

ggXpress - who suggested that I feel I own the truth?

I put out a challenge to those who would pollute collective thought with nonsense, to prove that something that they insist is quantifiable exists. Not one person has, including yourself. You have instead gone on an irrelevant tangent of attempting to utilize other common usages of the word magic outside of the context that I am using it. Can you give us an instance of someone willfully manipulating objects, time and space, or controlling outcomes by utilizing magic or not?

 

posted by gomedome on July 25, 2008 at 4:45 PM | link to this | reply

Re: ggXpress - It's a nice try but your metaphor hardly works

Misunderstanding exists, sometimes without knowing where it started - equal of status is one of my points, then same rights etc. - but why all this fight to tell everyone that you own the truth - yes, you're just as right as me and/or everyone else but to "shoot" non-believers doesn't make our word any better.   ---   and I know magic exists more than I can imagine because each and all of us have our own way of experience life (and magic).

Isn't it a point that we all should give each other space to live - and be/feel/believe in magic if it makes us better as humans?

posted by ggXpress on July 25, 2008 at 4:27 PM | link to this | reply

I believe only in good and evil

posted by spinner on July 25, 2008 at 12:41 PM | link to this | reply

Gome,

Yes...hostile environment...illness, which is what has and continues to take the majority of them while they are under 3 months.

Who or what was protecting.... The white light circle cast around, that would send a sort of "off limits" message to who or whatever may be prowling around. The mind/consciousness/energy field or whatever one might call it. The belief, desire and focus that I put in.

How and why I think a spell works... basically, can be an assortment of a number of things... need, belief, desire, focus... Some believe that a need is important...others don't.

Thinking back now...I do recall asking Bast(et) for their protection also. I have a small statuette of sorts. I don't worship any deity, but do respect. That part was sort of an experiment.

It would be really hard for me to explain, but I don't believe or disbelieve in any deity. I believe all is manifest from one energy source...and everything/everyone is as real or not as you believe it to be.

Not sure if that will answer your questions...but it's about the best I can think of to explain it.

 

 

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on July 25, 2008 at 11:50 AM | link to this | reply

sam444 - I think of the movie Monty Python's Holy Grail

The part where they had a lady with a carrot tied to her nose and the mob was screaming "burn her, burn her" 

posted by gomedome on July 25, 2008 at 11:29 AM | link to this | reply

ggXpress - It's a nice try but your metaphor hardly works

You neglect to consider that we are all of equal status here, all have the same rights to express our opinions and all have the right to simply ignore that which we find offensive or irrelevant.

posted by gomedome on July 25, 2008 at 11:27 AM | link to this | reply

Ciel - anything that could possibly demonstrate the existence of magic,

either black or white would suffice.

And the common usage of the word magic to describe something that appears as if by magic, or is beyond comprehension doesn't count.

You will see a trend develop amongst commentors on this subject which goes right to the point of the post. There are many that will defend the existence of magic without knowing why they believe it exists. Having never fully examined something they are quick to defend.

posted by gomedome on July 25, 2008 at 11:15 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Your words bring to mind the old Paul Simon song.

Pat_B - that is the jist of it really, there is a direct correlation between education and the belief in magic. When I speak with people that actually do believe in magic and there are a surprising number in North America, this correlation almost always makes itself evident.

posted by gomedome on July 25, 2008 at 11:07 AM | link to this | reply

Sunnybeach7 - you are about the last person on this site I would want to

to offend but sheesh, I don't know what to say to your comment.

If I have it right, you cast a spell on some cats so that they would avoid the perils of a hostile environment. The fact that they lived a little longer than most other cats in the same hostile environment (that you are aware of) has you believing that the spell worked . . . have I got it right so far?

I won't get into what I think transpired because you may well be offended by it but I will ask the biggie in terms of questions: Who or what reacted to the spell . . . as in who or what was protecting the cat?  . . . in other words; how and why do you think a spell works?

posted by gomedome on July 25, 2008 at 11:00 AM | link to this | reply

Re: ggXpress - Re: Magic i(s) real ...

... it's people behind every opinion and we don't come far with a 'gunslinger' moral: shooting down the bad ones so rest of us can live happily ever after (Bush II philosophy).

posted by ggXpress on July 25, 2008 at 7:58 AM | link to this | reply

Those who participate should be relieved we do not live in Old Testament days. They would be sought and stoned, hmmmmmmmmm. sam

posted by sam444 on July 25, 2008 at 7:51 AM | link to this | reply

see what I mean?

posted by FineYoungSinger on July 25, 2008 at 7:33 AM | link to this | reply

Re: FineYoungSinger - I don't know if I see the point you are making

I wouldn't say ignorance necessarily.  True, some people lack the intellect that allows them to make a choice about such things as a core belief system. 

But humans by design are not driven by their intellect alone, and emotional problems run the gamut.  Some people, even intelligent and educated people, will turn to something like "magic" or some similar ideal that tells them that they can have control over others, and no matter how intelligent a person is, will believe they can have the power.

posted by FineYoungSinger on July 25, 2008 at 7:15 AM | link to this | reply

I left and came back again so I could be your visitor #28,000.

Besides it being generally agreed you can't prove a negative, you haven't defined your terms clearly enough to make any flat statement about this. 

I'm gonna go magically make a post appear in my Universe blog... 

posted by Ciel on July 25, 2008 at 6:55 AM | link to this | reply

Your words bring to mind the old Paul Simon song.

"These are the days of miracles and wonders, / this is a long distance call."  It may be electronics to you, but it's magic to me.

posted by Pat_B on July 25, 2008 at 6:20 AM | link to this | reply

Gome...

Ok, I see...let's pick on the Pagan today. lol

Seriously...there are lots of things that I could say...but there is no proof I could back it up with for you or anyone that doesn't "want" to believe it.

I have done spells, and have had successes and failures alike. Mostly, I think it's how much I believe in and focus on what I am doing.
It takes incredible desire, belief and focus to make something manifest...by which I mean "come to pass".

I don't much believe in space or time, as we perceive it in human form.

Like I said...I don't have proof...nor do I have a real desire to provide any... Pagans don't recruit.

But to give example...I've had a lot of luck with protection spells.
One example... Out here in the country, we get a lot of cats (drop offs), sometimes their pregnant when dropped off, sometimes shortly after.
We have cared for many of them, as we are really the only ones in the area who will feed them...it seems.
There has never been any luck with these litters that have been born. Most die within the first month, those that don't, usually get hit on the road or fall victim to raccoons or whatever else may be lurking out there....very few have made it over a year or two.

I got tired of all the death and cast a protection spell (around them) on a mother and her new litter.
Nothing happened to a one of them...for years. It was really bad. We had 4 cats that made us crazy and life hell for I don't know how long. Eventually, maybe after about 4 years, the spell wore off, as the litter started dropping off (the mother is still alive).

I still hate to see all the death...but will never cast another spell like that again. 

posted by Afzal_Sunny7 on July 24, 2008 at 10:28 PM | link to this | reply

ggXpress - Re: Magic i(s) real ...

First off - A belated welcome to Blogit

The type of "magic" you are suggesting exists and is real, hardly forms a rebuttal of what I have written here. You are simply speaking of the use of the word magic in a context synonymous with wonderment, clearly a derivative use of the word not associated with anything in this post. A person would have to be dead to not sense some of the wonderment around us.

There are some opinions that do not warrant any form of respect, especially if they proliferate archaic, unsupportable and superstitious notions that are ultimately harmful to society. Then we must always keep in mind that this is a blogging site. I could tame down the rhetoric, I could use nicer words so as not to offend people's sensibilities . . . but the sad truth is that no one would read it.  

posted by gomedome on July 24, 2008 at 6:33 PM | link to this | reply

FineYoungSinger - I don't know if I see the point you are making

Unless it is in correlation with a sense of powerlessness attributable to ignorance.

posted by gomedome on July 24, 2008 at 6:21 PM | link to this | reply

Magic in real ...

... does exist ... but you have to be aware of it, see it, understand it (not with your brain but with your senses) etc.  I don't want to fall totally off and say: the grow of a flower is magic (it is if we can get the insight) - but in everyday life I experience magic experiences, often in small details. And that's what makes life "a little bit" more better whilst we're stumbling about here on this earth.

Your words: "Shut up you blithering backwards fools"  - push people away and it shows little respect for other opinions and experiences - but that's maybe how you want it. Communication is important - to be seen/heard is important - it's all up to ourselves how.

posted by ggXpress on July 24, 2008 at 12:53 PM | link to this | reply

People often need to find a way to have control in their lives.

The idea of "magic" and "casting spells" is in many ways, I believe, a person's expression of having power over something in a world where they are otherwise powerless.

posted by FineYoungSinger on July 24, 2008 at 12:44 PM | link to this | reply