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AardigeAfrikaner - agreeing to disagree is an over-rated concept
As is honesty over-rated when it is devoid of the reasonable expectation of common courtesy. In other words I'm suggesting that there is no conceivable good reason for you to add that you find my thinking " . . . sometimes lacking in depth". If this is the case, they are words best left unspoken.
You really have no choice but to take the blame for past dialogue between us becoming insulting. A policy I have adhered to my entire adult life is to never hurl an unsolicited insult at anyone for any reason and certainly not for meaningless differences of opinion. Having said this, I make no claims of not reciprocating the insults of others. If you were to check, any time I have said anything insulting to you has been prompted by a previous insult initiated by you. I can even tell you how many times this has happened (3 times) because that is usually the point where I end dialogue with people.
As for the rest of your comment, it is too lengthy to respond to in detail but for the most part I agree with your notions pertaining to the natural world. As for millions of people still needing "refreshing of original intent" as you call it, hey, more power to them if it works for them. It is only the insistence of some that I need it that I object to.
posted by
gomedome
on May 19, 2008 at 10:14 PM
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Should be right now...
I hope we can in future agree not to agree from time to time before becoming insulting as we have both done before. I'll take the blame for that if you won't. I'm not trying to be your "friend" either but I certainly find your thinking interesting, stimulating and sometimes lacking in depth as I'm sure you often find mine too, from your perspective. I'd rather say this to your face (figuratively) than work around it with pleasantries.
That aside now to this article: Just some thoughts triggered by your article.
I for one have never understood what the term supernatural actually refers to or rather how this term came to be used. The word natural itself is problematic to me. In my own language the word for supernatural is "bonatuurlik" which would translate to "above natural" and in some way that could explain how it came to be used. I know some people use it to point to anything non-human but "below" human and then supernatural would be "above" human. This implies a judgement of degree of "humanness" as the measuring standard of phenomena. For me there is just natural. If we are not natural, then what are we? Similarly if something more ethereal (like a being having its being in the range of frequencies only observable with instruments other than our own biological sensory equipment) get's proven to exist, from the point of view of empirical science, would that not also be natural? I know it's all semantics but I personally think the distinction between natural and not-natural is a "R.D meme" with negative effect on us as humans in relation to our environment. What degree of complexity does an animal (including ourselves) have to reach before it's use of tools and building of structures becomes un-natural? I think we as a species have gone too far down the road of establishing our place in nature by distancing ourselves from the rest of reality. Although I still believe that the originators of religion had a oneness with nature in mind and the prophets a return to this oneness, it is often the structured and socially manipulating branches of religions that have been the main culprits in introducing and augmenting this divide. Since most people who follow these traditions are not going to read or listen to anybody saying anything remotely contrary to what they cling on to as truth, I think the primary path to re-establish our gnosis of being intrinsically and inseparably part of the universe as such would be through the traditions themselves. People like you, who stand outside mainstream religion do not need this "refreshing of original intent" since you have obviously found a work around that works for you. Millions out there still need this though. Relating to your other article - I know not very many people read this, but sites like blogit are very useful tools in sharpening our word skills and minds to fulfil our tasks,whether we feel compelled to do so by life itself or have laid it on ourselves or simply feel like putting it out there for no other reason than because we can. Thanks for your stimulating presence.
posted by
AardigeAfrikaner
on May 19, 2008 at 5:47 PM
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Oddy - I'm going to say welcome back on the grounds that prolific
contributors such as yourself are good for Blogit.
To address your comment: You are speaking of what is at best an uncorroborated hypothesis of quantum mechanics and in terms that ignore the fact that there is no empirical evidence to support its existence. At this stage of what we know "alternate dimensions", sometimes referred to as "parallel universes", or "alternate realities", have their basis and derive their definitions much moreso from fantasy and science fiction than from anything that could be called factual. In effect you are attempting to explain away one set of primitive beliefs by introducing a newer, more complex belief (new in terms of being viewed from a scientific perspective, ancient Hindu mysticism aside).
Just as we believe we will conquer the vast distances of space travel with an as yet discovered means of propulsion, we may someday discover that alternate dimensions are a reality but until that day comes . . . I'm the wrong guy to speak to about such things in absolute terms and as if this hypothesis has been corroborated.
posted by
gomedome
on May 14, 2008 at 5:34 PM
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Speaking of Gremlins.......
I think it is easy to confuse the supernatural with the presence of alternate dimensions. By alternate dimensions, I mean realms that humans presently do not possess adequate sensory perception to observe. Just as we’ve developed instruments, like the telescope or microscope, to see into previously unknown worlds, so shall we develop future instruments and preceptors that will allow us to discover additional realms, some of which already impact our world (just as germs impacted our world before we could see them). These impacts are often referred to as “supernatural” because they are presently unexplainable by science. Just because present science cannot explain something, does not mean that it does not exist. There are a lot of things that “exist”, even though science cannot yet explain them. Good post!
posted by
Oddy
on May 14, 2008 at 4:28 PM
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Re: WHAT ABOUT GREMLINS?
Looks like the little guy that found his way into my computer hard drive.
posted by
gomedome
on May 14, 2008 at 2:15 PM
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WHAT ABOUT GREMLINS?
When things go screwy, how can you blame it on anything else?
Ever find a water hose all tangled up and wonder how it got that way?
Or an electric cord?
Do you think you are dumb enough to leave these in such a tangled mess?
Or that I am?
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 14, 2008 at 1:44 PM
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