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AardigeAfrikaner, that was almost painful to read
Just some friendly advice here, in the future try to break up your comments more, so that they are easier to read and not just one big block of letters. I really did not want to read your comment when I first saw it, but I wanted to be able to really reply to your honestly.
I very much understand that not all those who call themselves Christians are of the same mind in their beliefs. I have very' openly written about that in the past. I often go out of my way to make it clear that I do not group all Christians together and do all I can to use terms such as 'Many' or 'a group of' to get the message across that I do not believe all Christians have the same habits.
I find it interesting that you would think that when people write about 'God' in an open forum like this one, and are looking at the flaws in the belief that they would not be taking about the mainstream concept of God. Unless otherwise stated, the first assumption should almost always be that one is talking about the mainstream concept of God. It would be like saying you want to talk about 'pi' (Obviously talking, not writing) without explaining that you are not talking about the food stuff. Anyone who hears 'pi' is gonna start thinking of the food first and then need to be told it is the mathematic idea you want to talk about. You seem to hear 'pie' and think the mathematic idea first, ignoring the more common usage of the word.
I am glad you find value in my writings here and it seems you get the basic concept of what I am trying to promote. I want open discussion about religious beliefs and I want to see what people's answers are to these kind of questions. I assure that I am actually very tolerant of all beliefs. As always when someone makes such a comment to me, I do ask as to where such an idea came from. What has been said in my posts that seems intolerant? Very often I have found believers who come in seeing that I am an atheist and figuring I am intolerant just off of that, ignoring much of what I am trying to say.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 28, 2008 at 1:09 PM
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Re: AardigeAfrikaner, Yes, you missed the point by a mile
I often miss the point when I read an article mentioning "God" without explicitly stating that it is mainstream(polular) Christianity's version of God and their often over the top rules and regulations based on specific interpretations of their chosen chapters and verses in their favorite books in the collection of books called the Bible. I suppose you assume that most people who talk or write about God fall in this category and you may well be right. I have myself also often failed to see the freedom and love for "creation" and their fellow humans that they talk a lot about in their usually one way "conversations". I personally think that all societies laws are derived from what I and other scientists who study "comparative religion/science of religion/religious studies" (there may be other names depending which university you study at) define as religion. One scientific definition of religion I agree with is the human need to totalize his/her understanding of the world he/she finds him-/herself in combined with the need to transcend the boundaries of such a totalizing effort on a periodical basis. I know your articles are not aimed at scientists who study religion or people of less popular religious views but at people who hold onto dogmatic teachings that are forever trying to force their ideas on society (also another very human need, similar and diametrically opposed to your need to change their behavior) and I also tend to find humor where others may only find very serious discussion. Pardon me if I humor myself (and hopefully some other readers) from time to time in your blogs comments. Having studied religion in it's various expressions and under various definitions sometimes makes it difficult for me to relate to articles that address simplistic religious ideas under just one or two religious "banners". I am often chastised by these very fundamentalists you so often complain about for my own views and are often told that I should stop reading and learning about other points of view since they only cloud my mind (at least I'm already in the clouds while they still wait for the clouds to deliver their prize). I find this back and forth mudslinging between fundamentalist Christians and their opposition very funny and also very tragic as a symptom of what humans have evolved into. To my mind petty issues such as these should be put on the back-burner while we should all strive to handle life as it is for starters and then try to make it better together. Alas, that is not going to happen soon for most people. I can see the point made with Noahs' God and the deluge. Only problem is that we'll eventually arrive at the same scenario again if something drastic does not happen soon to fundamentally change a lot of people's attitudes towards one another. I do believe your articles contribute to a much needed discussion on the subject of religious tolerance even if most of them don't seem very tolerant from where I stand.
posted by
AardigeAfrikaner
on April 28, 2008 at 5:30 AM
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kooka_lives - interesting comments - I found a post subject in them
posted by
gomedome
on April 27, 2008 at 3:52 PM
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RSM, Please stop showing such a level of ignorance in your comments to me
I find it interesting that you really seemed focused on the idea that it should all be about the individual and not the big picture. You start off asking questions directly about me. Just because there might not be laws out there that affect the way I wish to live my life, does not mean that I should sit back and say nothing when I see religious ideas being forced on others that are very clearly just wrong and go against the very ideas of freedom.
Who is forcing me to live by God's word or laws?
Those like you who say that if I feel the need to go and pay for sex, that I could get arrested. It matters not if I want to do this or not, just the fact that legally I am not allowed to IS forcing religious laws on me. I could actually make a really long list of this here, since there are so many such laws out there. It is not at all about my daily life, but about laws that tell me I am not allowed to make choices in my life that I should actually have the right to make.
And it really shows your true character to such a high degree that the idea of practicing tolerance seems to bother you. I mean the fact that it seems to upset you that there was a day of silence in order to try and get people to get along with each other... No wonder I have such a hard time dealing with you. You must hate the idea of being decent to people not of your faith. It is one thing to say 'Hey let's all take a day and try to not say anything bad about this one group' compared to making laws that will put people in prison and possibly ruin their lives if they find more than one women who they wish to marry, live with and have a family with.
Also, I am very often made to feel like a second class citizen just because I am unable to believe in God. The laws of this land very much favor Christians and their moral beliefs, even though doing such is unconstitutional and anti-freedom. I have already shown you, even if you were too blind to see, some changes that should be made to our laws in order to make things better for all. These changes would be to get rid of the foolish 'moral based' laws.
My concern is really not about what laws I want for my only personal gain or desires, but are about what I see as being best for the future and best to promote freedom. I try to look at the big picture, not the selfish idea that my beliefs are right for everyone.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 27, 2008 at 10:39 AM
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gapcohen
It sounds like we agree here. Although look at the beginning of the comment bellow this one where I talk about 'common sense' laws and how you do not need believe in God to come up with them.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 27, 2008 at 10:15 AM
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AardigeAfrikaner, Yes, you missed the point by a mile
Certain rules, such as don't murder or steal have to be in any civilized society for it to function. Those kind of laws as common sense and you will find them in EVERY society, no matter the religious beliefs. To try and claim those kind of laws are something other than common sense is really pushing. It has been proven that man does not need a belief in God to figure out such laws.
The laws I am talking about are more of less just about freedom. We have homosexual rights as a prime example of this. A civilized society can function perfectly well if it allows homosexuals the right to marry (Actually it has been shown that things work better when such rights are given) but the laws that say otherwise are based off of religious ideas, not common sense.
If you believe that the Bible should be what all our laws are based off of, then not only is that unconstitutional and anti-freedom, but it also insults the concept of an all powerful God. If God's power is that great and his laws are that pure, then there should be no need for man to create laws to back up God's laws. Also, if we use the Bible for the basics of our laws, polygamy should be 100% legal. So we also see here people who seem to have it backwards and trying to claim religious reasons for certain laws which actually are NOT defended in the Bible. So just the idea that believers try to use the Bible as aw ay to get laws passed is in truth blasphemy.
Our laws should be based on the founding ideas of the country, as shown in the Constitutions and the Bill of Rights. if those laws disagree with the Bible and God's laws, then it should be up to the individual to live his/her life by God's laws if they feel they need and not a function of the government to enforce God's laws on anyone. That is how a FREE country is suppose to work after all.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 27, 2008 at 10:12 AM
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I missed the point of you article, didn't I?
So what is the point?
posted by
AardigeAfrikaner
on April 27, 2008 at 4:52 AM
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OK, I give up
You can ignore Gods Laws now.
Feel free to make and worship idols, hate everybody, swear at God, commit murder and screw whoever you like, steal stuff, and hate your parents.
Are you happy now?
posted by
AardigeAfrikaner
on April 27, 2008 at 4:45 AM
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God has your attention. sam
posted by
sam444
on April 27, 2008 at 3:12 AM
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A Few Questions
Time after time, after time, your posts are of one topic. It seems that someone is forcing you to do something that you do not wish to do. I want to know who is forcing you to live by God's word? Give me names. Who is it that forces you to live by God's laws? Are you forced to attend church? Are you forced to do anything in your daily life according to God's laws?
I have heard that the Constitution does not speak of our nation being of a particular religious sect. I have heard that the Bill of Rights has nothing to mention conerning religion. I have heard that our founding fathers never said anything about this nation being a religious nation. Yet, you are being forced to abide my God's law through man. Who is forcing you? Who is keeping you in bondage to abide by any laws?
As you put it, "It seems to me that God's laws have more importance when they stay as God's laws because then one will follow those laws out of belief and faith, not because the government tells them to."
Who is it in the government that is forcing you to abide by these laws? Since Christians follow God's laws out of belief and faith, doesn't that agree with what you stated? Are there a band of crazed Christians at your front door everyday demanding you must submit? Who is forcing you to do something against your will? Who is it? God's laws are not permitted in schools so you can not be speaking of that part of our daily lives. Or is it something like Friday April 25 in all North Carolina schools there was a "Non bullying homosexuals day" where they practiced not speaking all day to support a certain groups' agenda against all others. You know the kind, like in so many of your posts where one's group of beliefs are forced upon anothers? It could have been a "Non Bullying Day" but no it was all about homosexuals. So has there been a forcing upon you by Christians to participate in something you do not agree with or not?
You say, "There is no need to take away freedoms because those who believe and follow the 'grace' of God will follow God's laws and those who do not wish to follow God's laws will not.
What freedoms have been taken away from you? You have not supported these claims with any facts.
You state, "I follow my morals and my beliefs and I know they are strong enough that I do not need any laws, man made or God's to tell me how to live my life and know that I am living a good, moral life that has a positive effect on others."
Then okay! You live a good life following your own morals and beliefs, great! I do the same. So who is forcing you to do anything. Give me examples, names, experiences, etc. How have you been enslaved?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on April 26, 2008 at 9:28 PM
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I think that there are manmade laws that stem from the 10 Commandments - not to kill, steal, etc, (which, you could argue, are really man-made laws cloaked as divine). Others - like #1 (you should have no other G-ds before me) is, I admit, a personal choice, but is not a government mandated law. We are not required to practice a certain religion (if any), this is not the Inquisition, and unless you're a Jew in Baptist Country, TX, you can pretty much believe what you want to believe. I swear - I was nearly thrown from a moving car in Deep East Texas because I "didn't believe in Jesus." GEEEJUZ!
posted by
gapcohen
on April 26, 2008 at 5:37 PM
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the old adage - YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE MORALITY"
comes to mind
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 26, 2008 at 5:57 AM
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I've been wondering where you have been. Nice to see a post from you....even if it is a re-post. I too, am glad I do not believe in god........for the exact reasons you write about in this post.
posted by
ZenMom
on April 25, 2008 at 9:33 PM
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