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FineYoungSinger - In this post I do not reference the USA but instead use
phrases like the "free world" and "the rest of the world"
There is nothing in this post that suggests that I am speaking only of the USA. It is also reasonable to assume that any reader of this post (except one apparently) would know that the Vatican is the head office for the catholic church. It is exactly this little dance that you have begun that I consider a waste of time.
As for sealed cash settlements, I only know of one for certain because I know just about everyone on the victim list. In terms of this being common knowledge, most people lend some credence to articles such as this one: HERE . . . a paragraph from which appears below:
"Most appalling to many Catholics has been the insensitive way Church officials have handled the crisis, putting the protection of well over 1,000 of its priests above the interests of the victims. On a scale of 1 to 10, this is an 11," says former Hill & Knowlton Chairman Robert L. Dilenschneider, who has helped manage such crises as Three Mile Island. "The Church has been hit by a truck and permitted the truck to back over it several times," he says. "The quickest way to deal with a crisis is to tell it all and tell it fast." Instead, the Church's hierarchy helped fuel the crisis by dealing with abusive priests in-house, often reassigning them to new parishes, and by insisting that victims sign confidentiality agreements before receiving settlements."
posted by
gomedome
on April 22, 2008 at 2:28 PM
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Where in your original post did you say "watchdog over the vatican"?
You didn't even imply it. To quote YOU: "There is no neutral oversight committee or any other form of official body that is privy to this information", the "information", you rather clearly imply, is infomation regarding sexual abuses committed by clergy members.
This response of yours is a spin with a personal barb (I'm wasting my time?? This remark is completely uncalled for).
Now, if you want to get into the implication regarding "the scope" of this problem, and your "sealed cash settlements" that you claim took place, perhaps you should find the evidence yourself before putting it out there. Making statements then expecting someone else to do your research for you, as you've done in this comment, is just plain bad writing.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on April 21, 2008 at 8:43 PM
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FineYoungSinger - I'm going to promise you one thing
You are not wasting my time with an argument (especially on this subject) where you have clearly missed the points made in this post entirely. The USA is one country, it is not representative of the entire world. There is no neutral oversight committee acting as watchdog over the Vatican. To suggest that the US Department of Health and Human Services is that watchdog is just about the most clueless thing that I have ever heard. Why don't you request the number of court ordered, sealed cash settlements that took place in Canada or Mexico from them. It may be a better use of your time.
posted by
gomedome
on April 21, 2008 at 2:15 PM
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Re: FineYoungSinger - I don't see the relevance of one country's all
You state: "There is no neutral oversight committee or any other form of official body that is privy to this information" and "...you can save your statistics and thinly veiled defenses of the catholic church. They are based on nothing more than their version of the story."
UM, yes there is a neutral oversight committee. It's called the US Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families. I'd say that this is an official body. Any defense of Catholic clergy is based on statistics provided by this organization, not by the USCCB.
(The document states that among all child abusers, 4.1% of ALL types of abuse include clergy from all denominations, coaches, scout leaders, etc., and that 7% of all abuse is sexual in nature. Any more detailed information is available upon request from the US Department of Health and Human Services.)
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on April 21, 2008 at 10:05 AM
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FineYoungSinger - I don't see the relevance of one country's all
encompassing child abuse statistics to this post.
posted by
gomedome
on April 21, 2008 at 8:27 AM
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Here are some statistics on child abuse in America.
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm06/cm06.pdf
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on April 21, 2008 at 8:10 AM
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vickip - that is the undeniable reality, there is only one complete
chronicle of the scope of these crimes and it is held by the accused.
A reality that virtually that guarantees that no one but a handful of people will ever know the true scope of the crimes committed on a global scale. . . thanx for stopping in.
posted by
gomedome
on April 21, 2008 at 8:08 AM
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Sunnybeach7 - that is really what it amounts to- the righ and powerful hold
all of the cards in this instance.
posted by
gomedome
on April 21, 2008 at 7:59 AM
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"They are based on nothing more than their version of the story."
.... and this truly is the bottom line. This is a great post .. thank you for sharing!
posted by
VictoriaP
on April 20, 2008 at 10:42 PM
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Gome
It's very sad. The things that the rich and/or powerful can get away with.
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on April 20, 2008 at 10:37 PM
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mysteria - if you feel that way, can you imagine how I feel about them?
I was surrounded by these religious nutcases for most of my childhood. They dole out insanity like you and I expel carbon dioxide. Everything with them is about invisible beings that control every aspect of our lives. Armed with a bevy of elaborate religious constructs derived from various ancient mythologies, they set out to demonstrate to us how primitive man explained everything they did not understand. Then incredibly, they expect us with our modern day educations to accept the same primitive explanations.
I was all for passing the hat and collecting enough money to buy the poor fellow a pair of pants so that he could at least pretend to be like other men, but then I found out he controls a trillion dollars. He wears the medieval crazy duds by choice . . . go figure.
posted by
gomedome
on April 20, 2008 at 11:37 AM
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Ariala - your comment could be described as "pick an issue"
I agree that it is surprising how the pope(s) seems to be immune to the negative fallout from numerous and massive molestation scandals. For a great number of people, it is as if these things have never happened. The separation of church and state seems to be an ideal that can be overturned by the will of the people and especially by the will of popularist vote-seeking holders of public office.
posted by
gomedome
on April 20, 2008 at 11:19 AM
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ZenMom - I view him much the same way - the mafia don wears a dress
When you think about what the man represents and what he is selling (hocus pocus and imaginary cures from imaginary evils), the pope is already a relic of the past.
posted by
gomedome
on April 20, 2008 at 11:02 AM
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sam444 - It is the worst of all violations . . . .
. . . Aside from breaching a sacred trust, a great number of the crimes took place in situations where the victims where wards of the church. Places such as orphanages, residential schools, mission schools etc. etc. There are no words to describe the anguish the victims must have felt, there is no reasonable defence for these actions. I can fully appreciate disassociating one's self from this institution.
posted by
gomedome
on April 20, 2008 at 10:56 AM
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To me it is beyond ludacris that people even listen to that so-called
leader, let alone feel the need to acknowledge every move he makes
It serves very well to remind me of the kind of mindset I should like to avoid
posted by
mysteria
on April 20, 2008 at 8:46 AM
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I'm not sure what is more disgusting...the cover up or the fact that
America embraces the head of a pedofile organization and dares let him have mass on our turf and then claim we believe in separation of church and state.
posted by
Ariala
on April 20, 2008 at 5:38 AM
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The pope should have STAYED HOME. As a former catholic, any time I see his ugly face w/ that stupid dress and hat he wears, I'm disgusted. All I can think about are the "sins" of the "corporation" he mis-manages.
posted by
ZenMom
on April 20, 2008 at 5:30 AM
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I left the Church due to this cover up and moving priests about. My parish priests were dear friends and even in my wilder younger days I had drinks with them. But an atrocity is that and I cannot associate myself with their cover up. If you have ever known a person violated by a man of the cloth it is among the worst of all violations. The Lord will take care of those who did not act accordingly. sam
posted by
sam444
on April 20, 2008 at 4:59 AM
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