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Being ethical, helpful and kind is all we can ask of others in our own attempts to exemplify these things. Ultimately, these things must be the most important aspects of our existence...
and I say Amen to that - good to read you. Mal
posted by
gapcohen
on April 19, 2008 at 8:04 AM
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gapcohen - Re: Jews don't experience visitations
Correct me if I am wrong but the reason as to why Jews do not experience visitations by manifesting entities is supportive of my contentions in this post. The social expectation and desire to do so does not exist within your community. Further; have you ever heard of the Virgin Mary appearing to a Jewish person? Strange don't you think, considering that she was Jewish herself?
The story you relate of the friend pre-defining the exact parameters for the salvation of others is a sad one. It is always sad when someone feels they have the answers but it is apparent that they barely comprehend the underlying philosophies of their own religious message. Being ethical, helpful and kind is all we can ask of others in our own attempts to exemplify these things. Ultimately, these things must be the most important aspects of our existence.
posted by
gomedome
on April 19, 2008 at 12:44 AM
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Jews don't experience visitations
unless its our in-laws who end up staying MONTHS! I'm glad I found your post, and though I'm less skeptical than you (I have two teenage boys, and it's a miracle they're still alive!) I do feel that spirituality and faith are matters you keep to yourself. My sister-in-law lives in rural Tennessee and had a "friend" for years who would always bring up Jesus and Salvation, etc. Finally, this friend asked my sis (yes, I believe it was while having tea in her kitchen) where G-d is. My sis said, "All over - Jews believe that G-d's presence is in everything, including in ourselves." Apparently this was not the answer prosthletizing-friend was looking for - she said, "no - he's up there" pointing to the sky, "and you will never be saved". With that, their "friendship" ended and my sis was asked to leave and was never invited back. I do believe in G-d, but it's complicated and not something I judge others by. My kids struggle with it, and I tell them that they may or may not come to believe in G-d, but keep an open mind and in the meantime, be ethical, helpful and kind. It's the only good advice I can think to give~
posted by
gapcohen
on April 18, 2008 at 5:27 PM
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Re: AardigeAfrikaner - in answer to your question
I do have knowledge of not losing consciousness when falling asleep. My comment has grown to long, so I'm making it a post in my blog:
Dreaming
posted by
AardigeAfrikaner
on April 18, 2008 at 2:34 PM
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AardigeAfrikaner - in answer to your question
"What do you think happens to consciousness when the body stops working?"
If we are speaking of our physical consciousness and nothing more, we have no knowledge to indicate that when we die it is any different from losing consciousness when we sleep.
posted by
gomedome
on April 18, 2008 at 8:03 AM
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Same holds true for NDE's(Near Death Experiences)
and probably the same holds true for actual death. If a person is convinced that the death of the body is truly the end of the road, it should not matter, but if the stream of consciousness survives it is bound to carry on with familiar patterns and whatever you believed most strongly will certainly have an effect on your post-death experience. What do you think happens to consciousness when the body stops working?
posted by
AardigeAfrikaner
on April 18, 2008 at 3:10 AM
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Regarding your unfortunate relative:
She needs to take the following thought by Henri J. M. Nouwen to heart:
Do not tell everyone your story. You will only end up feeling more rejected. People cannot give you what you long for in your heart. The more you expect from people’s response to your experience of abandonment, the more you will feel exposed to ridicule.
Abandonment I believe does apply here, or some strange by-product of abandonment, and that's her problem, not yours. Her mistake was sharing with you out of pride and false self-importance what was meant for HER faith.
As far as apparitions are concerned, I've heard of non-catholics having visions of the Virgin Mary, Christ, etc. They aren't commonly published with approval of the Church, though, as its very cautious about these sorts of things, and tries to discourage publicizing events such as these until after investigation when the visions have stopped.
There really are only a handful of approved "apparitions", simply because of the fruits. You've experienced what I'm talking about here directly on a smaller scale (than for example the thousands of pilgrims that have travelled to Garabandal, Spain, to hear the ravings of an elleged visionary that changed her story every time she told it) the negative effects of "visions"--the anger with which she responded in the face of a doubter speaks volumes about its "authenticity".
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on April 17, 2008 at 6:53 AM
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