Comments on A Tool Of Sacramental Proportions

Go to No Answers Found Here.Add a commentGo to A Tool Of Sacramental Proportions

Re: Re: Re: 93--I think that's more than enough!
thanks, Sira!

posted by FineYoungSinger on March 10, 2008 at 6:13 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: 93--I think that's more than enough!

You're a special breed FYS--if only everyone would accept the fact that discussing, and even arguing, is healthy!

Through open discussion and disagreement, we can challenge not only ourselves, but everyone around us. Just think of all the people who've stopped by this blog, read the post and then the comments. That's a lot of people who have learned something, gotten to experience different sides of an issue, and had their minds broadened. All because you and gome disagree.

You're both brilliant--keep arguing, so I can keep learning!

posted by Sira890 on March 7, 2008 at 11:54 AM | link to this | reply

Re: 93--I think that's more than enough!

I hate to talk about the guy when he's not here to defend himself...but I'm sure he wouldn't mind my saying that he's grossly misunderstood in this forum.  He has very strong beliefs and a well-developed intellect.  It's a pleasure to discuss religious/spiritual matters with him because of this.

I'd like to stress once again, disagreement is not a bad thing.  It's in fact necessary to the learning process.  Thanks to our discussions in both my and his blogs, I've found myself researching and reading more material than I did before, particularly when we DON'T agree--Because I didn't just blow off or ignore his post, I not only learned the facts about the subject matter, but also found several other books that piqued my interest.

If we don't challenge ourselves, how can we ever grow outside of ourselves?

posted by FineYoungSinger on March 7, 2008 at 9:35 AM | link to this | reply

93--I think that's more than enough!

It's oddly comforting to know that demonic possession isn't something that occurs often.

I'm not convinced that I believe it's possible for someone to become entirely possessed. Then again, when I look back at some of the horrors that people have committed, it's almost soothing to believe that they were acting due to some demonic influence. Easier than admitting that humanity alone, is capable of such purely evil acts.

A great post--and a great dialogue between you and gome to round it all off!

posted by Sira890 on March 6, 2008 at 10:04 PM | link to this | reply

Re: FineYoungSinger - a point I've made many times is that the Movie folklore

You nailed it, gome.  If you don't believe satan exists, what's the point in fearing him?

If you DO believe satan exists, then you must therefore also beleive that God exists, and that God is far more powerful than satan.   Having true faith, which is ultimately doing all things to foster the relationship with God, means being in a position where anything less powerful that might wish you harm will not be successful.   I can't think of any other way to make it more clear....

Regarding the bad movies----TOO FUNNY!  It's exactly what I thought when I read the book! 

posted by FineYoungSinger on March 5, 2008 at 7:57 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Very informative...Thanks Ariala. The most encouraging thing about the
book was the fact that the author himself encourages working closely with the medical profession.  While there's really no harm done in praying over someone, his caution keeps the entire process in perspective. 

posted by FineYoungSinger on March 5, 2008 at 5:37 AM | link to this | reply

FineYoungSinger - a point I've made many times is that the Movie folklore

derived primarily from the movie: "The Exorcist" . . has taken a prominent role in modern day demonic possession.

The reality is much different. If nothing else, we must assume that the venerable demon fighter was chronicling his experiences with at least a modicum of candor. It sounds as if his stories would make for a lousy movie in comparison. With the fuel of the psychological impact created by a widely distributed graphic horror movie, the concept has been energized. Then taken up by individuals further from the core understanding of these genuinely chronicled realities, to be turned into a money making fiction. 

I especially liked the part about everyone concurring that to fear Satan is irrational. It matters not to me how someone arrives at this conclusion.   

posted by gomedome on March 4, 2008 at 9:36 PM | link to this | reply

Very informative...I do think most accounts are of people with delusions
and psychological problems, but I don't discount the real cases, too...you did a fine job...Thanks!

posted by Ariala on March 4, 2008 at 4:14 PM | link to this | reply

Re: FineYoungSinger - thanx for the mention and the link to my post

I was as shocked as you at the number.  I was expecting it to be far higher.  Additionally, when I bought the book, I was expecting story after story about spinning heads and projectile vomiting, but was quite disappointed...well, actually relieved, as I hate graphic horror.  His first story was about a woman that travelled across Europe to see him, and she was totally imagining it.  He just patted her on the head, recited the prayers like she wanted and told her have a nice day.  What do you do when people are dillusional? 

Don't get me wrong, there was some pretty strange stuff in the book, but nothing so graphic or frightening that it kept me awake, and nothing outside of the realm of what is possible.  The most graphic accounts were eyes rolling in the head and a few growls (I know, no pea soup?  what a bummer)  He basically said that to be afraid of satan & demons is just not rational, because it is us that has the power over them, not the other way around, and the way for us to wield this power is to consistantly and devoutly live a Christian Life...which is what Christians should be doing anyway.

oh...and it's my pleasure to link your post.

posted by FineYoungSinger on March 4, 2008 at 3:56 PM | link to this | reply

FineYoungSinger - thanx for the mention and the link to my post

I'm a little surprised that the number of exorcisms performed over a such long career adds up to a measly 93? It would be interesting if it were possible, to compare numbers from a few centuries ago but despite not being able to, this small number in itself has a number of implications. It is a common perception amongst those who give credence to the existence of an evil influencing entity such as Satan; that the modern era, especially the last few decades, has allowed him to manifest himself as never before.  Assuming that most of the exorcisms took place amongst members of his faith, a guestimate of their numbers over the two generations he has practiced the ritual exceeds 2.5 billion. (that's a guess of how many different Catholics were alive during his adult lifespan).

The numbers are a minuscule fraction of a percentage point, or without referencing population, less than 2 demonic possessions on average per year. I realize that he does not represent all exorcisms performed over that time span, nor does he represent all of the different religions but still . . . Satan must be on his last legs, a mere shadow of his former self if he can't do any better than that with an army of demons at his disposal.

posted by gomedome on March 4, 2008 at 3:05 PM | link to this | reply