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Speaking unemotionally, Faith is not a scientific exercise. It is an
individual journey. The Bible isn't a scientific document. It is symbolic. Besides, all of history has been tampered with by Bias. But I enjoyed reading your views.
posted by
Kabu
on February 19, 2008 at 8:48 AM
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Regarding both this and your previous post:
All history is at the mercy of what is written, which is why I don't base my faith on it.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on February 19, 2008 at 7:33 AM
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Later church leaders decided to deify and change the name
There was great discussion on whether Yeshua, given the Hellenistic, non-Jewish, name of Jesus by these leaders, was human or God. This over a century after he lived. We all know the God theory prevailed, just as the Easter tradition prevailed over the Jewish Passover tradition, with certain persuasive techniques, such as excommunication, etc., for dissidents.
And if we ourselves accept the prevailing view of Jesus as god, then we have a problem with the gospel narratives, and certain behaviors of Jesus that seem to contradict the sinless god-being.
However, were we to remove the miracles and other supernatural occurrences from the narratives, and present a narrative of the preachings and activities, we would find a real human being, and, were we to present this narrative (as obscurely as possible) to a psychologist, I believe that person would give quite an interesting profile.
I see a single minded individual there, a crusader, etc., and a psychological profile of a person who attracted quite a following, at the same time, with an abrasive personality that turned many people off, and quite a a few (the authorities in particular) against him.
I would like to see such a profile.
Certain human aspects in the narratives paint a portrait of a real person -- maybe more than just one person. The gospel scripture for Sunday was John 3 (infamous 3:16) where he talked about "we" -- and I have asked, "Who are these 'we' of whom he speaks?"
And the gardener and stranger that Mary Magdalene and other disciples talked to and didn't recognize until they began speaking, then thought they were Yeshua, these could have been men from the same school of learning.
All we have is a sketchy biography at best, with a man basically appearing suddenly on the scene and preaching a certain message. Where did he get that message?
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 19, 2008 at 6:07 AM
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Propaganda=
The Roman Catholic Church... ding.... ding... ding.
posted by
Transcendental_Child
on February 19, 2008 at 3:12 AM
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"His Story" or Myth?
All historical documents were written by a human. All humans have vested interests. The Greeks, Romans and Jewish elites have already refined the skills of public oratory and propaganda. Any history (His Story), however objective it pretends to be is actually myth, based on real events, but myth nevertheless. Myths are opinion shaping tools used to teach children (8-80:-) whatever values the myth creators wish to promote. Obviously once the myths gets into the hands of creative thinkers other than the originators they can change shape and meaning.
Regarding Jesus: Some theorize that this history/myth is based on Julius Caesar (who is often portrayed as a really bad guy with no historical documentation to prove that) who unified a lot of peoples into a coherent and basically peaceful and prosperous people.
Others think that the "Righteous Teacher" of the Essene scrolls form the basis of the Jesus history.
None of that really matters. What matters are the values taught. Loving-kindness forms the core of this history and were that remains the core of belief it has no bad or evil results. It is only once the story gets twisted by selfish people to gain profit and control that it has led to war and other unwholesome actions. We need to move beyond the attachment to names and dates and get on with what is important. Spreading a value system that will actually be to the benefit of mankind. Selfcentredness has had a couple of thousand years to prove itself unworthy, Time to recognize that and move on to better things.
posted by
AardigeAfrikaner
on February 19, 2008 at 1:26 AM
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