Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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Wow! How much time you got? It hurts to hear such things of God!
Okay here goes my take. A few points 1st. The popular views turn people away. The scriptures like a big jigsaw puzzle when the whole picture is not seen (pieces in proper places) don't always make sense, or hold up together. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. The purpose of Christ was to destroy the works of the devil. The works of the devil are death and hell (sin when finished brings death) So, Jesus having fulfilled this purpose, now holds the keys to death and hell. He is able to free the captives, release the prisoners, and Satan can't even hold people in hell once they are there. (The scriptures do back up my statements here and do hold up together as they should) Of course I'm no expert just a seeker for years, and passionate on these issues. One more for now, the unforgivable sin (Ijust went thru this) there is only one-blasphemy of the Holy Ghost after once having had place in you, to then speak irreverently, defaming it's sacred character (the Holy Ghost as an entity) this in not forgiven of man in this world nor in the world to come. Not too common, you couldn't commit this if you tried, since you have no knowledge or experience with the Holy Ghost. I have researched, studied, and been taught many things all of my life, I've heard too many differing views, and still, can claim no great understanding of the big picture at all. I'm continually, checking, re-reading reviewing and learning. It's a work in progress. Oh yeah, heaven has levels described in it and "my father's house has many mansions" doesn't sound like a big space we all fit into. The mysteries are endless. That's what I love most about it.Whew! Not saying mine are the right ones either.
posted by
thoughtfulness
on February 24, 2008 at 11:59 AM
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FineYoung
I've head that way of thinking before. There are some areas in that concept that don't really make sense and once more do not seem to fit right with the idea of the afterlife being about justice and such.
I am however very glad you started off by saying 'I believe' and made it clear that these are your personal ideas of afterlife and who it works, and ended with you don't know it all. After all any such belief come down to what we believe and none of us know it all. That is why I keep putting these posts up. I want to learn as many differing views as possible to try and see if I can't get a better understanding of the big picture.
As always I am glad to read your comments.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 22, 2008 at 8:33 PM
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Vairocana
Why does it seem that there are so many believers here on Blogit who go and decide that anyone who openly talks about religious ideas that are contrary to popular belief is a horrible person. Your whole comment seems to be so much about attacking me and my character just because I do not believe as you do.
It is no surprise to me at all that you ignore the ideas of the post for the most part and do nothing at all to actually back up your views. You seem much more concerned about painting me as some ignorant, narrow minded a-hole who is out to bring Christianity down because I am some hate-filled jerk who got screwed over by a church at some point.
Sorry, but NONE of that is even close to the truth.
In your comment you say that Jesus was wrong, which I find very interesting, as well as many other areas of the Bible that talk about how one gets into Heaven. You also seem to say that Hitler could easily have gotten into heaven, all he needed to do was feel that he was righteous in his actions. According to your logic it would seem that it does not really matter your actions, but that you are able to live with them. As a person who really does not have bad dreams, I must assume that you believe I will get into Heaven because I do not have any bad 'karma' holding me down. The reasoning you use here is really even weaker and harder to buy into than the standard biblical idea.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 22, 2008 at 8:28 PM
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Re: All I can do is give it to you the way I believe it....
Very good response. You are wiser than you admit. You are right: None of us can ever know everything and every angle of approach.
posted by
AardigeAfrikaner
on February 19, 2008 at 5:41 PM
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Re: All I can do is give it to you the way I believe it....
...in addition, I'll see what I can find by way of scripture---this was all off the top of my head.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on February 19, 2008 at 12:30 PM
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All I can do is give it to you the way I believe it....
Heaven and Hell are two words that we use for states of eternal existence. I'm leaving satan out of it because satan is not a factor in our redemption.
"Heaven" is the state of union with God (I've also heard this called the "beatific vision"). "Hell" is the state of disunion with God. It's not a matter of "judgment" in a courtroom sense, so much as a consequence of our actions. It's the existential equivelant of travelling---if we turn due east at the crossroads, we're travelling eastward. If we turn due west, we're travelling westward.
If, at the very end of our lives, we deny the existance of God and turn away, we're not "judged" per se and therefore thrown out of heaven; we've journeyed to this state of disunion with God. Same thing if at the very end of our lives, we realize that there is a God and turn toward him, we're not "judged" per se and therefore snatched from the grips of hell; we're journeying toward a state of union with God.
All of this stuff is so hard to explain, because none of it is really tangable. All we have is a limited temporal existence, and have no real concept of eternity, so the concepts of judgment, heaven and hell are manufactured to try to lend an understanding.
Now, fear being a very powerful motivator, many people respond to the idea of reward and punishment, which is why the concepts of Heaven and Hell are so engrained in the believer.
I admit that I've offered a very simplistic, incomplete explanation, and I also admit that I don't have all the answers. But I hope it gives you at the very least another way of looking at it.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on February 19, 2008 at 12:28 PM
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Heaven and Hell
While your God is Logic instead of experience and Life as such you will never "get it".
It is almost futile to argue about a subject that you enter into full of preconceived ideas and with your mind already made up. Yes, many people have a "simple" view on religion when it comes to heaven and hell. They are still better of than you who obviously have no idea.
It has never been about the thoughts arising. It is about getting carried away through desire attachment and getting into the habit of being carried away so that one inevitably acts on these thoughts and desires. Any straight man who sees a sexy woman and does not have thoughts of a sexual nature is hormonally challenged. Having such thoughts will not get you into a state of hell now or in the hereafter. It is when you become obsessed with these thoughts and feelings that you enter hell now and hereafter. Force of habit is what Karma (as you sow, so shall you reap) is all about. When you die, and surely you will, the momentum of your emotional and mental tendencies will determine in what state your stream of consciousness is (simmilar to when you fall asleep and dream) which in turn will determine what you end up experiencing.
Good Luck, fairly moral person...
posted by
AardigeAfrikaner
on February 18, 2008 at 7:49 PM
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posted by
afzal50
on February 18, 2008 at 7:45 PM
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