Go to Religion in the Modern World
- Add a comment
- Go to A natural thing like homosexuality?
greenbeanie - thank you for the kind words.
There is a responsibility we share with all of our fellow citizens in getting our information about them right. I hope the candor I used throughout this post does not detract from what I feel is a honest assessment.
posted by
gomedome
on February 17, 2008 at 6:41 PM
| link to this | reply
As the heterosexual, biological child of two homosexual parents...
I appreciate this entry. I also enjoyed it as I do most all of your entries. Thank you, in general, for this blog. I enjoy your thoughts and the way they are presented.
posted by
greenbeanie
on February 17, 2008 at 5:44 PM
| link to this | reply
Well done Gomedome
Well written and it held my attention from the beginning to the end
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on February 16, 2008 at 5:33 PM
| link to this | reply
aaaaaaah yesssssss...clarity in the world, on such subjects so nice to see
and to know that people can achieve high levels of mindfulness and functionality regardless of being in the midst of so much chaos.
Very encouraging.
posted by
mysteria
on February 16, 2008 at 8:13 AM
| link to this | reply
I agree that homosexuals don't make a concious decision to be. That no
one would willingly choose such a tough path. I have known, been friends with and worked with many people with same sex partners. Mostly they were just great human beings with about the same numbers of uglies as the rest of society. But life certainly had its tough times for them. Good post
posted by
Kabu
on February 15, 2008 at 8:12 PM
| link to this | reply
Re: Xeno-x - despite there being no conclusive evidence, I tend to think that
gome, xeno, I agree with you both that there is some kind of genetic factor. If not, how do we explain xeno's experiences? One of a zillion real life examples that I could offer from my direct experience: A friend of mine (let's call him Henry) was out one evening, spotted a man (let's call him Kevin) across the crowded room (cliche, well, you should meet Henry, he's a cliche personified). His friends--all straight women--said to him, "Oh no, Henry, Kevin is a straight guy. He's got a girlfriend and everything." Henry replied, "No he's not--
Look at him." Henry and Kevin have been in a committed relationship now for 4 years beginning with that night. If it's merely a choice, and there are no biological factors that someone can pick up on just by looking at another person, how would this be possible?
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on February 15, 2008 at 2:14 PM
| link to this | reply
Re: FineYoungSinger - you do know that Falwell died last year?
I sure did not know that---- so maybe he's falling well as we speak. Was that judgmental? or did my "maybe" qualify the statement enough? (vomit.)
biblicaly derived insanity: what a great observation. There's an old saying: "No one knows the bible better than satan himself." The blatent misuse and misunderstanding of that one little book has been instrumental in spreading some of the most hateful attitudes I've ever encountered among a people that claim to worship a God of love.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on February 15, 2008 at 1:41 PM
| link to this | reply
gomedome...lol.. I know...it's kinda like the ugly mistress thing...
"If you think that's attractive, what do you have chained up at the house?"
posted by
Kiddo75
on February 15, 2008 at 11:54 AM
| link to this | reply
Kiddo75 - you know the scariest part about Falwell?
It was his legion of followers. Like no one ever said "wait a minute, this guy who is leading us is nuts"
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 10:54 AM
| link to this | reply
I did not know Jerry died, crap. I really looked up to him, and considered
him to be a great role model for today's youth and tomorrow's future leaders...
anyways...lol.. Xeno-X, you are the coolest! I wish you lived nearby so we could hang out...that lesbian bar story is the shit...lol...
posted by
Kiddo75
on February 15, 2008 at 10:23 AM
| link to this | reply
FineYoungSinger - you do know that Falwell died last year?
But his legacy of obtuse righteousness and biblicaly derived insanity lives on.
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 10:10 AM
| link to this | reply
Xeno-x - despite there being no conclusive evidence, I tend to think that
genetics are a factor of homosexuality.
Again, looking at the reality of homosexuality existing in all species, lends some credence to some sort of bio-physical pre-determination.
I once owned a bar that switched from a mostly straight clientel to a gay bar in the first three months of my ownership. A new owner had a lot to do with it but I didn't even realize the change had occurred until one of my waiters remarked one night that he and I might be the only straight people in the place. The experience caused me to change many of my attitudes and over the two years I owned the place, allowed me to understand the plight of a small segment of society much better.
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 10:08 AM
| link to this | reply
OKAY SO . . . I'll go ahead and join in on the "shared experiences"
I had a woman friend who was lesbian . . . had coffee together, she took me to a lesbian bar . . . i sort of felt out of place there.
Then I was passing out flyers for our church barbecue, went into this bar (had changed hands) was a gay bar, all men. Heavy thunderstorm came up so I couldn't leave for awhile . . . felt uncomfortable there.
I have had several gay and lesbian friends, who, by the way, all seemed to be more moral in a lot of ways than straights, mainly honest and lacking deviousness.
I have been propositioned when I was younger -- just out of the blue, by guys hanging around the park. I noticed that some guys had similar physical characteristics, like a certain color of brown hair, thinning on top, and sporting a bushy brown mustache (choice on their part). An observation of about three I remember, makes me think that, genetically, maybe physical characteristics accompany homosexuality, meaning that there are genetics behind homosexuality.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 15, 2008 at 9:34 AM
| link to this | reply
Re: FineYoungSinger - I'm still trying to figure out how homosexuals are
Well, for fear of sounding judgmental, he aught be careful who he condemns, as that will certainly cause him to Fall-Well. I suspect that it's the same mentality that vilifies prostitutes--take the attention off my obvious sinfulness and focus instead on them. I submit that anyone believing this statement owns a mentality no different than one believing that prostitutes are a problem and not the symptom of promiscuity and unchecked lust.
If he's alluding to that rare occasion of the gay man living a married life in order to hide his true nature from a leering society, the obvious correction is a change in society's attitude toward homosexuals, and a serious look at promiscuity and unchecked lust (which, by the way, seems to be ok with many of these tv preachers--how many have been busted with prostitutes and mistresses?). They've got it all backwards.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on February 15, 2008 at 9:34 AM
| link to this | reply
FineYoungSinger - I'm still trying to figure out how homosexuals are
threatening my marriage and my family?
Maybe its because: "Homosexuality is Satan's diabolical attack upon the family that will not only have a corrupting influence upon our next generation, but it will also bring down the wrath of God upon America."
Rev. Jerry Falwell
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 8:26 AM
| link to this | reply
strat - to me, that is the most basic of logical conclusions - who in their
right mind would consciously make themselves an outsider from society?
This fundamental premise is re-enforced by the fact that same sex preference exists in all species and as far as we can tell, homosexuality has remained a constant throughout known history. As heterosexuals what are we left with? Prejudice because we don't like what others are doing in their bedrooms? Aside from being no one's business but theirs, our inherent distaste of these things doesn't qualify as any form of legitimate criteria to discriminate against them. As you say, the qualities of an individual is what makes them a decent person, sexual preference is completely irrelevent to these qualities.
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 8:14 AM
| link to this | reply
You all know my view on this topic...
homosexuals are scapegoats.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on February 15, 2008 at 8:05 AM
| link to this | reply
I think the point you make about
who in their right mind would choose a life that would cme with such hardship, discrimination, and misery from the rest of the world is proof enough for me that it's not a choice anyone makes is enough proof for me. I've always felt that way -- it would be about like choosing to be black in the deep south in the 1890s, or something.
I don't understand it, myself, but then again, I don't have to. Utimately, it's what you do, not who you do, that makes you a decent person in my book.
posted by
strat
on February 15, 2008 at 7:21 AM
| link to this | reply
Kiddo75 - I think the Teletubbie thingy was started by the leader of the
Bible Nazis; Jerry Falwell.
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 7:03 AM
| link to this | reply
yup. I remember even as a little girl that boys made me sick...but
for some reason, I thought they were cute...they still make me sick, and I still think their cute. Some of them. Not the ones I date, or dated for that matter. Cute ones didn't like me. I got the scummy ones. That's why I have a dog now.
posted by
Kiddo75
on February 15, 2008 at 6:59 AM
| link to this | reply
sam444 - all of the anti-gay rhetoric is hard to listen to when there is
a gay family member.
Embracing differences in people, as far as worthy ideals go, may be shooting for the moon in reality. I tend to think more along the lines of human rights and the notion that sexaul preference is not any kind of legitimate qualifier to deny individuals the same considerations as anyone else.
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 6:58 AM
| link to this | reply
Transcendental_Child - the part that I don't get is how so many people can
ignore how their own preferences developed.
I don't remember ever getting up one day and deciding that I was going to like girls. All I remember is my involuntary reactions to their presence.
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 6:50 AM
| link to this | reply
gomedome...don't feel bad. Teletubbies are a hard team to beat
all on your own. That purple one is the leader, I think... I remember when that stink was going around cause he was purple, carried a purse, that symbol.. lol.... hey, at least you were in the running! Isn't funny how sometimes even though we don't want something, we kinda get offended when the thing we don't want doesn't want us? lol
posted by
Kiddo75
on February 15, 2008 at 6:48 AM
| link to this | reply
Kiddo75 - I've only ever had it happen once to me and it eventually turned
into a joke.
A number of years ago, I had a gay employee that made a point of telling me he had exotic dreams about me every night. My initial reaction was one of shock, then I set the record straight with some very unkind words, then once it sunk in and I received a warning about the legalities involved, I apologized for the language I used. Afterwards, it became a running joke amongst the staff when they would ask him who he dreamt of last night. Apparently I lost out to one of the Teletubbies.
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 6:45 AM
| link to this | reply
Xeno-x - the aversion is inherent in the distaste we feel towards
preferences contrary to our own.
That type of instinctive reaction is natural. We are not obligated as responsible citizens to overcome our own inherent feelings towards that which we find repulsive. We are only obligated to control our reactions and not proliferate a hostile social environment for any segment of society. The last part is where conservative Christianity fails miserably, as if their central icon would condone Falwellian crusades against minorities. Such crusades also smack of the mechanisms utilized by the Nazis and in no small way. Hitler played on the inherent prejudices of his constituents much the same way that the Falwellian types do pertaining to homosexuality.
BTW . . . what are you doing hanging out in gay bars?
posted by
gomedome
on February 15, 2008 at 6:36 AM
| link to this | reply
XENO-X...lol...that was cute..."I feel uncomfortable in a gay bar"..
do you frequent many? lol... I know you don't go to gay bars, you were just making a point about how you feel around them. I feel the same way. They don't bother me in the least really, but I don't like to see them intimate. Hell, I don't like to see anyone intimate. Physical contact and lovey dovey shit makes me hurl. I get hit on alot by lesbians. I guess it's something to do with me looking like a little teenager. Or maybe it's because I act so manly, in the body of a school girl. They get the man, and the girl at the same time. Or maybe it's because all the people I am forced to have contact with are whores and will screw anything and it has nothing to do with the way I look or act.
I didn' get enough sleep last night...
posted by
Kiddo75
on February 15, 2008 at 6:19 AM
| link to this | reply
PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GAY HAVE AN AVERSION TO GAYS
I have problems watching gay men. I am uncomfortable in a gay bar.
As far as numbers are concerned, I don't know, but St. Louis does have a considerable gay population. There is a gay pride parade and event every summer that is attended by tens of thousands of gays, plus straight.
Religionists who feel that homosexuality is a sin react first from the aversion, which is sort of all right since they will be the "breeders", as gays call us straight folk, and perpetuate the population. The use scripture as it comes straight out to us. They don't read between the lines. I just read a book where the author took the Leviticus passage to a Rabbi -- or expert in Talmud, etc. -- something that. The passage, he said, refers to treating a man like a woman in a relationship; that is, like unimportant chattel -- at that time, only men had full rights; women were at a level somewhere with the donkey. This would mean, homosexual activity is all right -- it was just putting the other partner on a level with a woman that wasn't all right.
And I have explained the New Testament. At that time, much visible homosexual activity was indeed abusive; but the passage can cover abusive heterosexual activity also.
They get rid of the aversion; they can open their eyes to a more accepting world.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 15, 2008 at 6:04 AM
| link to this | reply
I have a brother who is gay and 6 other siblings who are not. He was always a bit different than the rest growing up. No one knew until his mid twenties when he came forward. He's my brother and I accept him as he is. He hasn't tried to change nor I him. So, in my brother's instance your composition in on the money. We must embrace differences in people! sam
posted by
sam444
on February 15, 2008 at 5:28 AM
| link to this | reply
Very well said....
and you are right... we do not select our sexual orientation any more than we do our gender.
posted by
Transcendental_Child
on February 15, 2008 at 3:14 AM
| link to this | reply
Share the luuuuuvvvvvv.....lol....I love this....you are so dang witty!
I tell you what, I know for a fact that a lot of folks skeered of the homosexuals would change their tune to a nice show tune, if they came over to my part of town and saw the type of breeding the straight folks were creating. I'm sure homosexuality would suddenly become more tolerated, if not, embraced...by the homoskeered...
posted by
Kiddo75
on February 14, 2008 at 11:13 PM
| link to this | reply