Comments on THE HORROR OF RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE

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Xeno-x - that's hilarious, but sadly, just about the truth of the matter
It is an issue that is nothing more than a smokescreen for slipping some form of prayer back into the schools. Geez, I thought God was everywhere, you would think that praying at home before going to school would do the trick?

posted by gomedome on February 13, 2008 at 8:01 PM | link to this | reply

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO WRITE A SKIT ABOUT A MOMENT OF "SILENCE"

The teacher stands in front of the classroom.  8:00 (the time for the Moment) approaches.

Kids look up --

Hey teach, Johnny pipes up, it's time to be silent!

Yes it is Johnny.  Okay, everybody, let's be silent.

Joey writes a note and passes over to Judy, who reads it and snickers; Joey snickers, Janey snickers.  Davey, leans over to Judy, whispers, What's so funny?

Teacher declares, This is a moment of silence, children!

Class laughs.

Teacher says, we are supposed to stop and think about . . .

God? Billy asks

No, not god, Billy . . . that would be religious and we aren't supposed to be religious.

Then about what?  Billy asks.

Well, anything you want, I guess.

What if I don't want to think about anything.

You never think about anything, Johnny declares.

The entire class bursts into laughter.

Johnny looks at the clock.  The moment of silence is over, Ms. Jones.

Yes it is.

Thank God.

Ms. Jones gets reported for praying in school.

posted by Xeno-x on February 13, 2008 at 3:23 PM | link to this | reply

RSM, you really do like to babble on about nothing
You still don't get it at all.
 
First off, I do not treat you the way I do just because you disagree with me.  I treat you the way you do because you show time and time again you deserve such treatment from me by the manner you present yourself to me.  I have no problem at all with those who disagree with me when they do respectfully
 
Second, you show yourself to have great hate towards many, many things.  Such hate is clear by your words. Once more, you need not say you hate something to show people that you really hate it.
 
Next, I am making no assumptions about the kids not getting anything out of the moment of silence.  I am positive of this since I work with kids fairly regularly and an very good with handling them and getting them focused.  I would never be foolish enough to have them do a 'moment of silence' if I wanted them to be focused on a task with-in any reasonable time frame afterwards.
 
The schools are not getting worse because 'God has been taken out of them'.  That is the most foolish and ignorant of concepts ever dreamed up by the religious right as a way to try and force their way into the public school system.  There is truly a long history of school violence that dates back several hundred years, although most are not well documented up until the 1960s.  The only reason why things seem to be getting worse is a complex mix of better media coverage, more access to more effective weapons to carry out the events, more schools in general, with higher concentration of students in them and more or less the idolizing of the people who commit these events by them getting so much media coverage. Prayer and religion not being part of the school itself plays no part at all in what is going on and there is nothing at all out there to back up any claims like the ones you have made. 
 
I can't hate God, since I do not believe in God.  Seriously, how can a person hate an imaginary being?  And how many blogs have I written against God?  Very few really.  You really have some serious issue here with any ideas presented that go against your beliefs.  It really might be best for you to stop reading me posts because obviously you are unable to handle a critique of issues of faith.

posted by kooka_lives on February 10, 2008 at 7:11 PM | link to this | reply

Re: RSM, Seriously, do you even try to read what I have said here?

I really find it difficult to reply to assumptions, insults, rants and raves. I really am tired of you claiming I hate things just because I happen to disagree. You must be full of hate to assume such a thing. You seem to assume many things. Why is that? How can you assume children get nothing out of it. How can you assume, geez, I do not even have the time to list all of them. You seem to try to assume everything into being a fact.  

Tell you what we should do okay? Let's continue to pull everything that could possibly be associated with religion out of the schools. Let's encourage whatever to come inside the schools. After all Kooka, the schools have been doing just fine without God right? I graduated from high school  in 1979 then from college in 1983. The most serious event that would happen back then was to find a student smoking pot or just a cigarette in the bathroom in high school. So let's invite the wonderful ACLU to eliminate God from the nation. Now it is 2008. Let's review what the most serious events in schools over the last 25 years. Wow, a few come to mind! Not only Columbine, Va Tech, etc.etc.!

Admit it Kooka. You not only do not believe in God, you hate Him don't you? That is why you spend every waking hour thinking of your next blog against God.

posted by RedStatesMan on February 10, 2008 at 6:32 PM | link to this | reply

RSM, Seriously, do you even try to read what I have said here?
The moment of silence in and of itself it not religious, and I have stated that any time here already.  But the need for said moment and the simple fact that the ONLY group that truly gains from it are of one set of religious beliefs, makes it so the implication of that moment is fully, 100% religious in nature.  It matter not if they are allowed to do whatever they please with that moment.  And since all that moment is going to do for the most part is cause the kids to become less focused on learning and make them more likely to act up, it is counterproductive and just should not be done.
 
You really are sounding like a broken record trying to use the same unproven and weak point over and over again never addressing my counter point to it.  You are so much in favor of forcing religious ideas in the schools and making it the schools responsibility to aid in the religious needs of the students, that you are blind to the reality of it all.
 
If the moment of silence is only there to appease one group's religious ideas (Which is obviously is) and it is basically that group saying that public school need to take charge of their religious needs, then there really is no reasonable way you can make the claim that it is not religious.  I still have yet to hear anything that backs up the need for the schools to be doing this.  The moment of silence is something that should be done at home before hand.  If I thought my kids needed such a thing, it is MY responsibility to give it them, not the schools.
 
Interesting that you seem to believe my sons are atheists, as if I believed in forcing my views on anyone.  My oldest boy does claim he believes in God, yet he doesn't pray and your moment of silence would hurt his learning process in the classroom.  Basically my son would take that moment and try to figure out how he could bug his friends or act silly because he would be bored right away and then it would take time to get him to refocus on actual school work.  I would put this as being the case for most grade school kids, since I spend a lot of time with grade school kids now and have gotten a  fairly good idea of how they react to such things.  My other son is just five, so he doesn't have any idea of what he believes in.  I also have faith that as my older son grows and learns that he will figure out his actual beliefs for himself, as I mostly figure he believes in God just because and that it is really not a matter of faith for him yet.
 
In order to make this make any sense, first off you would have to show how the act itself is not catering to one specific religious group (No matter you claim of it being something they can do as they please with) and then show that there is an actual measurable benefit to it for the students. Right now all you have is one group wanting an unneeded moment so they can pray and get in the way of all the other student's learning time, as a stunt to show that their religious ideas have priority in our public school system.
 
And not to try and show just how ignorant you really are, it is Mr. Spock, not Dr. Spock.  Dr. Spock was the baby guy. Such a mix up really does not help you to look like you know what you are talking about.
 
Now I do wish to show your ignorance, since you really showed yourself to be way, way off there.  Logic can more or less explain everything and solve more or less all the problem out there.  I've never seen any evidence to suggest otherwise.  The problem is that we do not have the needed knowledge yet.  Logic HAS been involved in the creation every single invention of man, actually a mixture of logic and imagination together did it.  But we would not have even invented the wheel without logic being involved.  Cavemen would have ran way from fire and never figured out how to control or create it without logic.  And it was not really logic that said the world was flat, but lack of knowledge.
 
And I will not disagree that to use a football analogy here is dumbing it down, it also does not really fit.  Logic would not have said that the Patriots would win straight out. You really cannot use logic to predict accurately the outcome of sporting events, just like logic is fully unable to accurately predict lotto numbers.  There are too many random variables involved.  Logic would have said they had the better chance of winning, but it would also say that is meaningless in such an event.
 
Is here more to this universe and existence as a whole than logic?  Yes, and I have never claimed otherwise.  In fact I understand the need for logic, faith and] imagination to work together.  The problem is obviously that you hate logic as much as you hate humanity and so refuse to acknowledge its importance.  If you had your way we would all be living in caves and have not developed at all because any time that you faith is challenged by actual logic you act childish and attack the logic itself, or deny it and pretend you know better.
 
Yet again you seem to help me understand that I see the big picture much better than you do, because I do not limit myself as much as you do.  You ONLY try to see the big picture though your narrow minded faith and ideas, while I clearly have a much more open mind and am able to use all knowledge, logic and reasoning that is out there when I look at the big picture.

posted by kooka_lives on February 10, 2008 at 8:36 AM | link to this | reply

Re: RSM, you really are not even trying now
You said, "It is NOT freedom at all.  You are basically saying that the public schools should somehow become responsible for the religious
practices of a select group of students.  How is that freedom?  The is nothing but placing one religious group's beliefs above all others and allowing them to set policy for all based off of their beliefs."
 
How can this practice be plcaing one religious group's beliefs above all others when the children are free to use the moment of silence as they wish? How? How can you say this to a child of Muslim faith, Christian faith, Jewish faith, Catholic faith or no faith at all? Select group of students? If all are included then how is that select? Your child can use this time to think about logic or nothing or whatever just like I said in my comment. Read it again! The child can use this time for whatever thought they desire. They can think about how much they love their parents if they desire to. How can that not be freedom? Your argument is bogus.
 
You often talk about logic. Logic is all that you have to base anything on apparently. Logic is not even close to the big picture. Logic is less than a speck on the radar screen. I would have to predict that you must be a Dr. Spock fan since you are into logic. Well, as Spock is a make believe character, so is the hype on logic. God gave us incredible brains for reasoning. Logic is just a small part of what our brain can do. However, logic can not explain everything. Logic has never created anything and never will. Logic is simply cause and effect, that's it. At one time it was logical that the earth was flat. To dumb it down to modern day, it was logical to think that the Patriots would win the Super Bowl. So please do not bring logic into this discussion because there is so much more to this world and universe that is far beyond logic. Logic is limited. Expand your mind. Think about the whole picture not just simple logic.

posted by RedStatesMan on February 9, 2008 at 9:42 PM | link to this | reply

RSM, you really are not even trying now
You are not clueless because you disagree with me, you are clueless because you are just not wishing to understand what is being said to you.  You keep trying to make it all a personal thing here and doing all you can to attack my character above addressing any of the issues.  I have never claimed you to be clueless because you disagree with me, only because your reasoning, logic and often your facts are greatly flawed.
 
I do not believe the moment of silence is of any benefit to the students, in fact it goes beyond belief into the simple fact that I have seen enough proof that such a thing is not beneficial.  I work with second graders all the time right now and I can tell you that a moment of silence will only make it harder to get them to focus on the task at hand and learn anything.  You need to either be talking tot hem or doing something to make sure they are focus on some real tasks if you wish to have control over them.  Just saying 'Take a moment to sit and be silent' is just asking for trouble.
 
It is NOT freedom at all.  You are basically saying that the public schools should somehow become responsible for the religious
practices of a select group of students.  How is that freedom?  The is nothing but placing one religious group's beliefs above all others and allowing them to set policy for all based off of their beliefs.
 
It is unnecessary and truly counterproductive.  They ONLY group that gets anything at all from this would be believers and they can have their moment of silence at home before school or on their own time during the school day such as lunch or recesses.
 
I am glad however to see you admit that your faith has no logic to you.  Although I would not say it is 'above' logic.  Just void of it.  Not the same thing really. As for the big picture, I have yet to see any evidence given that your 'faith' of views come anywhere close to understanding the big picture.  What I have seen says that logic is more likely to get you to understand the big picture much better than faith ever will.

posted by kooka_lives on February 9, 2008 at 9:10 AM | link to this | reply

Re: RSM, It is not my fault that you are clueless about so many things

How am I "clueless" just because I simply disagree with your beliefs? I do not call you clueless because you do not believe as I do. You seem to have this idea that your beliefs are justified and that all others are "clueless."

I believe that the moment of silence in schools is a great benefit to all children, even children who have parents who may be atheist. The moment of silence is for all. Whatever religion and whatever belief, the moment of silence is there for all to either worship God, Allah, Mohammed or nothing at all. Your children can use this moment of silence to contemplate their belief in no God, nothing or what they may have for supper that night. Whatever! It is a great idea and should be used nationwide. It is freedom of religion at its best! It is freedom! Are you against freedom?

On the faith issue that you have written about many times I must say that faith is so far above logic or any other secular findings that it is not a reasonable argument. Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Logic and secular beliefs are great but they are weak in comparison to the whole picture. Faith is above all that is here on earth. 

posted by RedStatesMan on February 8, 2008 at 9:39 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka...keep it up. You are one bold sob (say that in a friendly tone). I have three kids that went thru our public school system. I am offended at the amount of time/energy that has been wasted on this NON-ISSUE. Especially, when our school system (in what is the wealthiest country in the world) is BROKEN. I've said this in previous comments on other posts: Before xmas, I told my daughter (age 17) it was ok for her to hum during the "moment of silence". So far, it has not been enforced in our school district.

posted by ZenMom on February 8, 2008 at 6:18 PM | link to this | reply

FineYoung
Thank You.

And that does sound like a fun movie.  I don't think I'll get a chance to see it until it hits video though.


posted by kooka_lives on February 8, 2008 at 3:44 PM | link to this | reply

Whysper
How often have you worked with a group of a half dozen kids or more? A moment of silence for the sake of a moment of silence is NOT going to get them under control or focused.  If you get them silent, you make sure you are talking and that they have something to focus on.  You do not just let it all be silent with nothing else to do if you really want to get them focused and learning.
 
The moment of silence is not religious, but the intent of it is and the need for it is.  If the school start to implement such a moment, than they are saying they have some kind of obligation to one group's religious needs.
 
It is not needed and it will not help the kids learn.  All it will do is allow one group's religious ideas to slip into the public school system.
 
 Since it is neither beneficial nor needed, then it just should not be in the schools and the only people who are going to push for it are pushing for it because of religious needs. Seriously, why can they not have their moment at home?  Why do they need the schools to deal with their religious needs for them? If it really is important to them, then they can find a few minutes in the morning for a moment of silence with their family.  It should never be up to the public schools to take care of such obviously religious needs, especially when it would detracts from the actual learning by doing so.

posted by kooka_lives on February 8, 2008 at 3:43 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka: This cartoon reminds me of something I saw only yesterday....

Last night my husband and I went to see "Charlie Wilson's War".

Great movie...You'd absolutely love it.  There's a TON to chew on.

There's a point in the film where Congressman Wilson is visited by a constituant that is complaining about his being forced to move a Creche scene from public property.  Charlie tells him, "There's a church right next door, how about you just move it to the church?"  HELLO, Charlie was right.

HELLO, Kooka is also right...The government has no business mandating a timeslot for prayer, even if it's disguised as a moment of silence. 

I think it's complete bulls*** that anyone would want the government to tell me or my child when they are allowed to pray and when they are not.  Either way you look at it, it's a crock.  If you are a believing Christian, than you know that you can pray anytime, to yourself without needing a state-mandated moment of silence to do it.  Schools should be focusing on educating students, not promoting political agendas of any kind.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 8, 2008 at 3:34 PM | link to this | reply

My that seems a bit one sided and arogant

You obviously know so much more about children than I do. The moment of silence is only about religion if the one requesting it makes it that way.

I have always found, that when properly administered it gives a moment of suspensension when the leader can then gain control of the attention of the audience. However, I suppose if you wish to see the worst in every thing I can understand your stance.

posted by Whysper on February 8, 2008 at 2:41 PM | link to this | reply

Whysper
Do you really want me to make a list of all the problems with that.
 
First off, a moment of silence for school kids is NOT going to work out very well.  Basically you are telling them to do whatever they want and that moment is NOT going to take just a moment. And they are not going to think about anything deep or relevant.  They are going to want to play around and get less focused.  I deal with second graders all the time with my son and his friends in cub scouts.  I would rather get them focused on a project or something tangible as quick as possible than give them a moment of unfocused silence.  It does not take much to get these kids off track.
 
So we start off saying we're giving the kids a moment and it will be a much longer.  No teacher should have to put up with that at all.  Get the kids in the classroom and make sure they have stuff to focus on and be active with so that they are learning and are as occupied as possible
 
One of my big issues is the ONLY purpose of having said moment is because ONE group wishes to make a big show of their religious beliefs in a place where such a show does not belong.  If they really need this great all important moment of silence, then they should do it at home before they leave for school.  There is nothing to be gained by trying of have the schools somehow have to take care of people's religious needs, outside of this group getting their religious ideas forced on others.  It really is NOT the school's place to worry about a moment of silence for some people's religious needs, that should be done by the family on their own time.
 
There is no logical need for this moment of silence.  These is nothing of learning value to be found in it and really if you have worked with kids as much as I have, you also see that giving them such a moment is only going to cause more problems.  AND in the end since the drive to have this moment is clearly religious based above all else, it would be a great step backwards in insuring true religious freedom and would weaken the idea of separation of church and state.
 
I won't even go into the idea of paying our teachers money to enforce a religious practice at the schools we pay our tax money into and all of what goes with that.

posted by kooka_lives on February 8, 2008 at 2:27 PM | link to this | reply

Oh.... and then there is the possibility
That you can't actually force ideas into peoples heads, and it wouldn't hurt to take a moment to think about something other than yourself. I am not religous in any way shape or form, but I relish a moment of silence and only hope that those around me are taking that moment to think of something good and peaceful.

posted by Whysper on February 8, 2008 at 1:42 PM | link to this | reply

But can't you just sit there and not think about an invisible friend?

posted by Whysper on February 8, 2008 at 1:39 PM | link to this | reply

Xeno, old man you got it wrong
The moment of silence in and of itself is not religious, but the need for it to be there is 100% religious.  The only purpose to have such a thing in the public school system is as a way of forced religious ideas.  There really is no other logically use of such a thing.
 
At face value it would seem that it is not the moment of silence itself that is the real problem, but the true ideas behind it.  That makes the moment itself far from being 'nothing'.  Once a school gives in to that one small thing, the school suddenly becomes less about educating and more about promoting religious ideas.  At that point the moment of silence becomes something far greater than 'nothing'.
 
It becomes less about the simple idea of possibly making some kids uncomfortable and wasting time and more and more about making sure our society stays true to the ideas of religious freedom.
 
We really cannot say such a thing is 'nothing' because that just opens the door for those who wish to force religious ideas on others to trivialize the whole thing.

posted by kooka_lives on February 8, 2008 at 11:09 AM | link to this | reply

RSM, It is not my fault that you are clueless about so many things
It is not about you disagreeing, it is about how you seem to have no idea what is being said and you very often go so far off subject that what you say make nonsense and has no logic, facts or reason to back it up.
 
You were the one who could not tell the difference between an ordainment and a collage degree, two very different things.  You the one who is misunderstanding religious freedom and claiming foolishly that the USA was founded as a Christian nation.  You are the one who time and time again shows that he is confused and just not understanding things.
 
If you were to be able to disagree and show me some basic, competent level of reasoning to your disagreement, then things would be different. Right now my next comment will be to disagree with my father there, since I do not agree with what he said and wish to show him why.

posted by kooka_lives on February 8, 2008 at 11:01 AM | link to this | reply

Schoolchildren could not care less about a moment of silence. This is just
another silly control mechanism for the adults who want their children trained in their belief systems.  Nothing more.  All a moment of silence serves is to have children whispering, giggling, poking each other in an attempt to pass the time.  It would be better spent going over adverbial clauses, one of the reasons for the increased militarization of Europe that preceded WWI, or explaining covalent bonding.  I can think of millions of ways to spend time learning in a minute's time, all of them better spent than in a moment of useless silence --where they learn nothing -- even if that silence is devoted to some higher power belief system (which really proves my point).

posted by saul_relative on February 8, 2008 at 7:34 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Yeshuan, what a hypocritical statement

Make no mistake, Yeshuan, Kooka reads your comments then twists your words then insults your words as well as yourself. As I read this exchange, I thought I had already replied to this and Kooka was talking to me. The same ole phrases are used as in his response to your comments:

"You really are clueless and that last statement shows that to no end."
 
 
"You are either greatly confused on what is and is not religious, or you are being hypocritical.  Now I am not saying you are doing it on purpose, but there is no doubt a level of hypocrisy in what you are claming."
 
 
"Yeshuan, you are confused" 
 
Then Kooka has the audacity to state the following:
"I am all for respect and tolerance of other people's beliefs"
 
Compare these to the replies that I receive from Kooka such as:
"RSM, you still have no idea what you are saying"
"That comment made no sense at all in the least. "
"Seriously man, do you ever have any idea what you are talking about?"
"First off, since you seem really confused about this"
"RSM, do you even know what you are talking about any more?"

I have many more but you get the picture. All of these replies to comments that were in no way out of line or was the use of profanity found but yet we have Xeno-X claiming that Kooka portrays the values taught in GAL 5:22 and 23? I will not judge but I simply do not see any values in the way fellow bloggers, who simply disagree, are treated by Kooka. It is a stark contrast, even in some of his own words. Good message on your part Yeshuan.

posted by RedStatesMan on February 7, 2008 at 7:37 PM | link to this | reply

i can moderate if Kooka and Yeshuan want

looking at the elephant here.

Yeshuan sees the moment of silence as a noncommittal thing.

Kooka sees it as religious, forced on people.

I see that, although the moment of silence is just that, and there is no religion attached to it at all -- nothing, still, the business of schools is to teach.  the moment becomes an imposition from faith upon the secular teaching world.  kids just don't get it -- i am pretty certain of that -- and it would tend to be viewed as a religious thing -- meditation -- etc.  It accommodates religion.

So, although technically it is nothing, there is a spirit there where it still has religious connotations and is imposed and some students might not want the imposition.

posted by Xeno-x on February 7, 2008 at 12:53 PM | link to this | reply

Yeshuan, no it was hypocritical
I am not at all looking at the tone, but what was said.  You claimed that no one should be pushing any form of religious ideas on anyone, but are somehow justifying the moment of silence, which is nothing but a form of forced religious ideas.  Basically you seem to think that it is not forcing religious ideas to have the moment of silence, which is 100% religious in nature, and then claim that to just focus on school work instead of wasting time is somehow forcing a set of religious ideas.
 
You are either greatly confused on what is and is not religious, or you are being hypocritical.  Now I am not saying you are doing it on purpose, but there is no doubt a level of hypocrisy in what you are claming.
 
The ONLY Intended purpose of a moment of silence is for silent prayer, NOTING ELSE.  That is the truth of the matter.  You wish to try and claim otherwise, you are just fooling yourself.  It does not show respect for wisdom and does not belong in our public schools.  Wisdom is about asking questions and being active for school age kids.  A moment of silence does nothing for them, except maybe bore them and make them less likely to be paying attention and more likely to misbehave.
 
I read your comment with an open minded and clearly say what you said and understood that you just do not get it.  I will write a blog about the 'why' of the problem here.  it really is the same kind of issue that some believers have with the whole 'Merry Christmas' vs. 'Happy Holidays' thing.

posted by kooka_lives on February 7, 2008 at 12:22 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Yeshuan, what a hypocritical statement

First of all,

Nothing I said was hypocritical.  Read my comment, without reading anything into my comment.  I am not a Conservative Christian.  My tone may sound conservative to your ears.  I assure you, it is not.

I belief in equal expression of all worldviews.  A moment of silence in public forums shows respect for the wisdom the various worldviews have brought into this.  I am completely against the imposition of any worldview on anybody at anytime.  If a child in school is made uncomfortable by what another child does during a moment of silence, hopefully, the parents have established open communication with their child and a learning opportunity can come from it.

Congrats kooka, you pressed a button, I need to examine why any form of the word hypocrit sets me off.  I guess I grew up around so many of them.  If you can, in the future, please remove your anti-Christian glasses before you read my writing.

posted by Yeshuan on February 6, 2008 at 6:43 PM | link to this | reply

Yeshuan, what a hypocritical statement
You really are clueless and that last statement shows that to no end.
 
The public school system has NO business at all pushing ANY religious ideas in the least.  None at all.  For ANY teacher to do such a thing would be wrong on so many levels.  It would be like me teaching a class and saying 'Now kids, it is foolish to believe in God.'  Would you want me telling your kids that if I were a person in such a position of trust over your kids?  Or how about we get some Pagan teachers in there and they can go off about how great their gods and goddesses are and how Christianity is some foolish system of beliefs?  If you let Christians push their views, then we might as well let people of all faiths get the same right to push religious ideas on the kids.  Unless you somehow believe that we are not a free country and are instead a theocracy and all people who are not Christians do not have the same rights as those who are.
 
Your own comment ends with saying how your kind of people don't want my kind of people influencing your kids. Yet you seem to believe I should have no problem with your people pushing their beliefs on my kids.  Somehow in your mind it is fine for those who follow your religious teachings to push their beliefs on kids, but people who follow other beliefs better not try to do any such thing.
 
Your moment of silence is clearly religious in nature and therefore should not be in the public schools. As I pointed out there are more than enough times for the kids to take their moment of silence on their time and there is no logic at all as to why such a thing would need to be organized by any public school unless it was to try and force certain religious ideas on the students.  Not having the moment of silence is pushing NO religious beliefs at all and shows equal respect to all the students.
 
And for the record, religion has no place at all in a truly free and democratic government.  Some of the biggest problem we keep seeing are when people try to force religious ideas into our government.  Anyone who claims otherwise clearly does not understand freedom as far as I am concerned.
 
As for public forum, no one is stopping people from expressing their religious ideas publicly.  As long as the people are being polite and considerate and legal, they can do whatever they please.

posted by kooka_lives on February 6, 2008 at 5:22 PM | link to this | reply

The schools/teachers who are promoting
a religion or belief system are out of line.  I see nothing wrong with allowing time during school for the practice of individual beliefs.  Recognizing the importance of spirituality/meditation/or in the case of atheists just taking a break.  It seems to me there is too much reading into motives.  Conservative Christians don't want the atheistic agenda imposed on them.  Some Atheists want to wipe out all signs of religion in a government/public forum.  I believe sensibility resides in the middle of the views.

posted by Yeshuan on February 6, 2008 at 4:23 PM | link to this | reply

I DON'T REMEMBER A SINGLE MOMENT OF SILENCE IN THE SCHOOLS

when I attended. Didnt hurt anybody that I know of.

Moment of silence is unnecessary and most kids won't get anything out of it anyway.

Did you ever notice a kid when he/she has absolutely nothing to do --

he/she is always doing something, even when he/she is doing nothing.

posted by Xeno-x on February 6, 2008 at 11:44 AM | link to this | reply

Yeshuan, you are confused
The moment of silence is a way to force a religious idea on others, nothing more.  The kids can have a moment of silence at home before they go off to school if it is important to them.  The idea that hey need this moment of silence during the school day is ridiculous.  I am all for respect and tolerance of other people's beliefs, but public schools should not be used as a way for one group to force their religious ideas on others.
 
The kids have plenty of their own time if they need to take a moment to pray during the day.  Lunch break, recess, before or after school.  It is not the school's job to promote religious ideas.

posted by kooka_lives on February 6, 2008 at 11:30 AM | link to this | reply

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! This is so true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

posted by tigerprincess on February 6, 2008 at 10:59 AM | link to this | reply

Nope, not confused.
I believe the world would be a better place if we were taught early how to be tolerant of what others believe.  The moment of silence allows for children to practice what they have been taught at home in school while allowing for whatever that belief might be.

posted by Yeshuan on February 6, 2008 at 10:57 AM | link to this | reply

Yeshuan, you seem to be confused there
No one has any problem with individuals publicly expressing their beliefs on THEIR own time.  During a school day however is not the time nor place for such things.  If students feel the need for such a moment, they can do it during THEIR lunch break or before or after school.  A moment of silence lends nothing at all of value to the education system and would only actually make some kids feel uncomfortable about their own beliefs.

posted by kooka_lives on February 6, 2008 at 10:35 AM | link to this | reply

Hmm,
While I definitely see the double standard many mainstream Christians display, I do not like the movement against public expression of personal religious beliefs.  The moment of silence thing is a part of that movement. 

posted by Yeshuan on February 6, 2008 at 10:20 AM | link to this | reply