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RSM
I do not choose to not believe in God or perfection. Through the experiences of my life it just has become clear to me that there is no God and no perfection. You think the Earth is perfect? While I enjoy it greatly, I would never claim it to be perfect. Earthquakes, floods, blizzards, the list just goes on if you wish to look at all the problem there are with the planet itself and how unstable it really is.
And once more, I have never claimed that you have SAID you hate humanity. It is just obvious through your words and views that you do. I do not need to say I hate broccoli. I just avoid it and talk about how horrible the smell and taste of it is and anyone who sees that should pick up that I hate broccoli. (Broccoli itself being evidence of just how imperfect the Earth is.)
I put my faith in a lot of people very day, even some who I have never really met. I have faith in the postal service, and I rarely see any of them and they nearly never let me down. I have faith in my family and friends. It would be a real long list if I was to make one. Now none of them are perfect, since perfection is nothing more than a silly dream. No they are not the 'end all' of the universe, because due to the size an complexity of the universe there is beyond a doubt so much more out there. Something does not need to be perfect in order for someone to have faith in it. You seem to have some kind of high level of acceptance saying that the only things one should have faith in have to be perfect. What a shallow existence that would have to be.
"So why would I choose to have faith in Man when there are so many in the past and present who wish to dictate what is good for me?"
So God does not dictate what is good for you? I am now really confused on what point you were trying to make with the last part of your statement there. In my life people have let me down, but that is life and it is imperfect. Now I can honestly say God has let me down greatly. Of course most of that is because God is clearly fictional and incapable of doing anything at all for me. He has let me down by just not being that well thought out or inspiring of a character, which really is not his fault, since he is fictional and did not create himself, but the fault of the writers of the Bible I guess.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 9, 2008 at 9:26 AM
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Re: RSM
You have admitted that because you believe that perfection is an imaginary goal and that this also includes God then you can or choose not to believe that perfection created this earth and all that is included in it. God created the earth and you do not want to admit that this obvious perfection we call earth is that of God. You think that it is all just luck?
I do not "hate' humanity and I never said that I hated humanity. That is something that you have contrived from my words to fit your rebuttal. Why would I put my faith in man? Why would I choose not to pray but to put my faith in Man? If you believe putting your faith in man then name someone who you put your faith in and tell me how they are perfect? Do we go through life thinking, "geez I sure have faith in that guy, I hope he will not let me down." What kind of existence do you believe in? You think that Man is the end all and the ultimate. I love other people and I take them for being equal to me. We all have the choice, given by God, to accept whatever belief we choose. What could be more free that that? So why would I choose to have faith in Man when there are so many in the past and present who wish to dictate what is good for me? Wake up!
posted by
RedStatesMan
on February 8, 2008 at 9:51 PM
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RSM
I have not twisted your words in the least. Your words speak for themselves. You show you hate humanity by the way you degrade humanity as a whole and focus more on how sinful and imperfect we are all. The quote I used was just one of many where you show that attitude. In fact you comment here backs up the idea of the post clearly, as you once more show just how much hatred you have for mankind.
You see to you do not need to use the word 'hate' to show you ate something. I could say broccoli tastes nasty, and then I am saying I hate it, just as you say no one should put any faith in humanity is your way of saying you hate humanity. Seriously, there is no other way to take such a comment. Someone who loves humanity and has respect for it would never dream of telling people not to have faith in others.
Yes, I have faith in my marriage, because I have faith in myself and my wife. And you know what? We are both humans. Once more, faith in humans. In fact everything I have faith in really is just me putting my faith in other people.
As for politicians, I have no faith at all in any of them. I do not trust them because due to the nature of what they have become.(Seriously, politicians are at the edge of even being able to be labeled human). But since they make up a relatively small percentage of our population, you cannot take their failings and try to judge the greater idea of humanity by them.
I know humans are flawed, but I do not worry about the flaws as much as I focus on the positive side of mankind. All one needs to do is look at the accomplishments and the true potential of humanity to see that we are truly something impressive. You see I like mankind and would never tell someone to not have faith in people. It is not narrow minded to have faith in people you see. In fact it is really just the opposite. The big picture is about having faith in other people above all else.
There is no such thing as perfection anywhere. No one and nothing can achieve that imaginary goal. That is one of the ideas that helps me see that God is fiction. As soon as the label of perfection gets put on the idea of God, it show that ideas cannot be true.
I have never claimed that man was perfect nor that man had control over nature. Nature is a great force, that is imperfect, and cannot be controlled.
I never blamed God for my mother's accident, but pointed out that the only event in the whole of what happened that could have been logically contributed to God was the accident itself. Everything else that happened was all people doing the work. I saw no sign of God anywhere in it all. Did some of the people who helped my mother believe in God? Most likely, but THEY did the work to make her better. If anything when you try to claim that God was behind it all and not eh people who truly saved her, you only help to show how much you hate humanity. You wish to trivialize hard work and dedication by claiming the 'hand of God' was involved. Sorry, those doctors and nurses and ever one involved are the one's who saved my mother's life and helped her get back on her feet when she was close to death. Don't insult humanity more by trying to give credit to your invisible friend.
I never acknowledged the existence of God. Go and reread the post and you will see that clearly. I do not claim there is a God or any belief, only that the only aspect one could honestly say that God was involved with was the accident itself, since it was very random. Everything after that was very clearly and undeniably the act of HUMANS. MY mother is still alive today because of people, NOT you invisible friend.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 3, 2008 at 8:59 AM
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Unbelievable!
I see that you have now resorted to taking my comments and making posts about them, wow! This tells me that I must be hitting a nerve. This post of yours is mindblowing. I really do not know where to start.
In my comment concerning 'faith in man', please answer the following question:
Where did I say that I hate humanity?
You have taken my words, for years, and twisted them into what you want to lable me as a hater. I do notice that you often take comments out of context or make assumptions or just plain change them to back up your argument as you clearly did in this post.
When I say that placing your faith in something as flawed as man is narrow-minded then that is exactly what I believe but how that equals hating humanity, I am not sure. I am speaking of the big picture here, not just what goes on in daily life. I am certain that you must place your faith in something, if not God!? Are you married? If you are then you entered that bond with your wife on faith. Do marriages end in divorce? YES! I know that you vote and you vote for the person you have faith in to do the job so has any politician ever been perfect? NO! This is what I am talking about. Man is flawed. I know that comes as a shock to you but we all are human beings and we are flawed. Name one perfect person. Go ahead and name that person. Who do you know that has never made a mistake? Why must I accept some thought that tells me to believe in only Man? Man and only Man created the world and universe? Then why doesn't Man stop tornadoes, hurricanes, famine, war, etc.?
It is interesting that you blamed God for your Mom's car accident. I have never heard a more ridiculous statement in my life. You were quick to state how the 'humans' helped her. Let me understand this, there is nothing that God has done for your Mom to have survived this crash and is alive today? Gee, I wonder how many of those EMT, nurses and doctors were Christians?
I am surprised at this post. However, it is nice to see that you have acknowledged the existence of God, albeit causing your Mom's car crash. By that I guess that in all reality there is no such thing as an atheist.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on February 2, 2008 at 10:35 PM
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Hi Kooka!
Well said, my friend. I agree. But maybe I'm a bit more pessimistic than you. I believe there's about 5% bad and 95% good in the world!
posted by
SpitFire70
on February 2, 2008 at 8:46 PM
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