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RedStatesMan - nice try but if you do not see where you have been insulting
I can't help you.
When the blog title asks the question: "Why haven't I seen any demons?" and you answer with (paraph.) "The devil doesn't chase who he has in his back pocket." it is a fair assumption to think that you are suggesting that the devil has me in his back pocket. Where I don't believe that the conceptual character of the devil exists, you do. In that I can also reasonably assume your intended sentiment. The devil in your religion is representative of all evil, in your comment you are saying that I am also representative of evil. Then you have the audacity to complain about receiving a vulger response, not to mention your fabrication of things that you accused me of doing that you cannot prove.
When you left the earlier comment on Kooka's post suggesting that he and I think we are smarter than everyone else on the planet, that too is insulting but I let that one go. I usually give bible thumpers a couple of free swings before I let them have it which was again the case with you. Ultimately all you have done in this little exchange is demonstrate that you have nothing intelligent to say. You make accusations, hurl insults and complain when the volley is returned to your court. Yep, I used a couple of marginally vulgar words, which of course are now your focus because you haven't been able to substantiate your accusations. You may want to look for typos as well, that's a favorite trick of those who can't muster an intelligent argument.
I'll try to get over the loss of your readership.
posted by
gomedome
on January 10, 2008 at 11:15 PM
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Re: RedStatesMan - I figured you would backpeddle
I do not have the time nor desire to copy the insults. I have never used profanity or demeaning statements towards you. You should just go along with your posting and I will no longer read your blogs. May God forgive your beliefs.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on January 10, 2008 at 10:21 PM
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Re: RedStatesMan - that's just bullshit
I simply made a statement without any profanity and it has apparently disturbed you greatly. Your topic was about demons. How did this one sentence disturb you?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on January 10, 2008 at 10:14 PM
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RedStatesMan - I figured you would backpeddle
Now you are complaining about how I conduct myself in my own blog which is a far cry from your earlier accusations that suggested I routinely attack believers who disagree with me. There is quite a difference between your showing up in someone's comments section and insulting the blog author because you disagree with their opinions and my responding to those same insults with the same degree of disdain. You are the transgressor in this instance and don't think for a second that I won't be happy to club you over the head if you think I'm going to put up with your nonsense. All you need to do to verify what I have just said is count how many insulting comments I have left on your blogs. It will add up to zero, every last insult I have made towards you has been prompted by an insult from you first.
You also don't want to start bringing other people into this, I get along quite nicely with b2008. The occasional friction in dialogue between us is none of your damned business. I would like just once to see you address the subject matter of posts you disagree with, instead of taking swipes at the author. I have yet to see you do that unless the post is written by someone who believes as you do . . . and you have the gaul to talk about immaturity.
posted by
gomedome
on January 9, 2008 at 11:58 PM
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Re: RedStatesMan - that's just bullshit
I can start with how you have adressed b2008. Not to mention all the other hundreds of responses. I do not have time to post that nor will I take up your space on here but I will invite other readers to just simply look around at your responses to believers. "Bullshit" is obviously one of your favorite words. There are many others. If I write quip to one of your posts, I am 100% sure that I have not used profanity in my response. I have not attacked you with that kind of juvenile language. You are quick to attack believers who read your posts. Speaking of dialogue... you need to examine your posts and responses.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on January 9, 2008 at 9:08 PM
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b2008 - I didn't include it in the post simply because most people cannot
get through it.
There are a number of complimentary avenues of both enquiry and premise, that solidify the notion of all manifestations being derived from stimulus to the human mind. The most obvious one is a point I mentioned earlier about each individual only seeing their respective religious icons. Despite your objections, this is actually true, or at the very least cannot be disproven. Aside from being nearly 100% consistent in induced manifestation experiments (bombarding the brain with electro-magnetic energy in a laboratory), investigation will demonstrate that it is virtually impossible to produce just one credible example of a variation from this consistent pattern happening naturally. An example such as a Hindu seeing an apparition of the Virgin Mary. All of these realities, coupled with their universal application amongst all of mankind, solidify the argument of there being necessary criteria to experience a paranormal or religious manifestation.
Again these criteria are: prior knowledge of the manifesting entity, electro-magnetic stimulus to the brain and the desire of the subject to believe they have been visited by their respective religious icon. I also mentioned that this avenue of enquiry was the most promising in that it answers a number of questions but we must also concede that there are things we will never have the answers for.
posted by
gomedome
on January 9, 2008 at 11:23 AM
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Wow, what a read...
...I copied the link so I can get into it more thoroughly later. Thanks. Why didn't you put that link in your original query? It would have made clear a lot of what you were saying.
posted by
b2008
on January 9, 2008 at 10:07 AM
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Gomedome...
...that was the answer I was looking for. Thank you.
posted by
b2008
on January 9, 2008 at 10:03 AM
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RedStatesMan - that's just bullshit
You and I have never had any dialogue over the years and as a matter of fact, the first time I have been abrupt with you is just now in these past few comments. Everything else in your last comment about my attacking people etc. is something where I'm going to have to ask you to put up or shut up. In other words; show us one example of an unsolicited or unprovoked attack by me on someone on this site.
Let me give you an example of what provoking someone looks like:
Re: kooka_lives - we could write a book of lame proofs of God's existence
"We could also write a book on how gomedome and kooka have wisdom beyond all others here on earth. How they know all and the rest of us who disagree are simply poor little gnats in their world. This blog is ridiculous not in the fact of kookas' beliefs but in the way it is delivered daily. Trying to legislate how to prove someone's beliefs to be wrong and then coming to a conclusion based on the author's governing is ridiculous. Kooka, please do not spend so much time trying to prove the meaning of life and just live it. If all of this analysis by yourself and gomedome is a part of the life of an atheist (which I doubt it is needed) then I know I simply do not desire your beliefs because I do not have that much time."
posted by RedStatesMan on December 13, 2007 at 8:23 PM | link to this | reply
Demons!?
"The devil doesn't chase who he already has in his back pocket."
posted by RedStatesMan on January 7, 2008 at 7:18 PM | link to this | reply
Now go and show us where I had said anything insulting to you specifically before these two comments. . . like I said, your claims are just bullshit.
posted by
gomedome
on January 8, 2008 at 9:53 PM
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Re: RedStatesMan - I'm still waiting for the day you say something intelligent
I tried that years ago! I tried to engage in dialogue but was met with the same name calling 'you're an idiot'type of response that you seemingly give all the time to everyone. So I quit! I read your responses from others and I see that you have the same reaction to any believer. My responses are not full of obscene and demeaning words but yours are such as "piss off chucklehead" and your overall thought that you are superior intellectually than any believer. The fact is that anyone who comments on your posts who may not agree with your views are attacked. I do not agree with you at all but I do read your post. I listen to what you have to say only to be met with this juvenile crap. If I have a one sentence comment to leave then there is a reason. Your topics begin with an attack on Christianity, your titles begin with an attack and you question me about dialogue? I used to contribute money by reading and commenting on your topics but not anymore. You are full of hatred towards God and Christianity. The only reason you post this garbage is so you can talk trash to believers. You are right, I will piss off and I urge all others to do the same. If you don't agree with gomedome then "piss off" folks!
posted by
RedStatesMan
on January 8, 2008 at 9:32 PM
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RedStatesMan - I'm still waiting for the day you say something intelligent
Why is it that you have nothing to offer but disdain? Are you incapable of reasonable dialogue? All I've ever seen you do is leave comments questioning why those whose religious opinions you do not agree with write their blogs. Not once have I seen you actually address any of the topics being discussed or contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way. If things you read in this blog bother you so much I have a suggestion: piss off chucklehead.
posted by
gomedome
on January 8, 2008 at 8:26 PM
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Re: RedStatesMan - that's about the level of moronic drivel I expect from you
Oh, thank you gomedome. Why do you worry about this topic so much if God does not exist? Go out, get away from the computer, experience life, live!!!! What are you, some little demon child sent to us from the devil to blog against God every day of your existence?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on January 8, 2008 at 8:07 PM
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b2008 - that's a real problem in communicating entirely by the written word
Inflection and tones are non existent, while quite often prevailing sentiments can be misconstrued.
But my lack of patience is predicated upon a little more than not being able to get my point across. I've taken the time to educate myself on these subjects and as a person without a scientific background, it wasn't easy. In respect to the subject matter of this post HERE is an interesting link that outlines many of the principles I have attempted to condense into layman's terms.
It is very simple, I do not believe that demons, angels or any other conscious beings live in some imaginary spirit world. I am not alone in this belief, there are a number of extremely intelligent people that have, through extensive study, come to the same conclusion. Where I don't put myself in the same intellectual leagues as the people who have come to these conclusions, I fully comprehend what they are proposing. No avenue of enquiry has all of the answers but so far I have yet to find an explanation that is even remotely close to being as promising.
posted by
gomedome
on January 8, 2008 at 1:19 PM
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The problem is when you say something and...
...somebody reads it, it is their interpretation that you're asking for. I don't believe anybody knows anything specifically about electro-magnetic energy, I was asking your personal beliefs of how you felt about manifestations. I see you don't like getting too personal so I'll just leave it alone.
Sorry!
posted by
b2008
on January 8, 2008 at 11:20 AM
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b2008 - by highlighting specific parts of my post in your comment, you in
effect misquote what I said.
You simply cannot remove qualifying statements and use portions of a paragraph out of context this way. I said "I think . . ." that this person was lying to me. Later in the same paragraph I said that in most cases I tend to believe the experience, not the explanation. I called one person a liar, not everyone who relates a similar experience. You seem to be suggesting that everyone who relates a manifestation story be given the benefit of the doubt regardless of whether they are credible people or not.
I'm going to have to end this discussion, I'm finding it rather pointless and I will tell you exactly why. To refute what I have said in this post, the debate should focus on the effects of electro-magnetic energy on the human brain. In other words; is what I am suggesting enough of an influence to offer a reasonable explanation as to why people experience manifestations of religious icons? Everything offered so far has been superfluous and irrelevant. I think the closing line of this post indicates why this has been so. In any event, I simply cannot continue going back and forth like this.
posted by
gomedome
on January 8, 2008 at 8:02 AM
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you have to believe in grmemlins -- er gremlins --
they wouldn't let me spell their name right -- see?
all the unexplained snafus.
like i will roll up a rope or electric cord very carefully -- and later when i have to use it, it's tied in a half dozen hard to get out knots -- GREMLINS!!!
or something is going along smoothly, then for no reason little things just bog things down unexplainedly -- the only explanation has to be GREMLINS!!!
next time something happens to you -- that's what it is.
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 8, 2008 at 6:39 AM
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By the way, I didn't realize...
...I was being "insulting" and I truly apologize. If you knew me as a person and knew how I talked, you would really not consider that an insult. But sometimes when you put things in words, they might sould as such and I'm truly sorry.
Forgiven
?
posted by
b2008
on January 8, 2008 at 5:31 AM
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Gomedome, I beg to differ only because...
...I'm on the outside looking in here and what I see is one who is critical of someone telling you they saw a demon. You actually said "I did not believe a word of it." That is when you made a statement indicating that "...I was being lied to in an attempt to fortify a belief in such things...". So did you not call her a liar? Then you go on to say that most cases you hear are "...believable in the sense that we all have had strange things happen to us that is beyond explanation..." And then you indicate that because of our conditioning in such things as angels and demons, in essence, it is a "no wonder" their manifestations are related to the same. That is why I said you made yourself the moral authority to disbelieve what a person said about their experience.
You are absolutely correct in your 2nd statement that most people could not tell you the first thing about the effects of electro-magnetic energy on the brain. Hell, I couldn't tell you either. The only thing I was saying is that people live in the moment, not in the knowledge they may have or have not accumulated. And anybody with the intelligence to know brain functioning and how it reacts to various stimulation can give you a reason for what occurred, like after an autopsy for instance, where the medical examiner gives you a reason for the death. My point is the reasoning doesn't much matter to a live person who has experienced what they did. They just need to communicate the experience and those who are on the other end of their communication, should not be so skeptical or intellectually uninspired of their experience because they feel they know better. That's not the point. The point is that person felt within their mind that it actually happened as they said it did. That should not be disputed at all. Unless you walk a mile in a man's shoes, how can you experience exactly what he felt?
That is what my response was saying. We need to give credence to what some people experience in their lives because it is as true to them as breathing is to you. And especially the example of the 3 year old little girl I gave you. She hasn't lived long enough to establish religious or cultural manifestations in her little brain. Her parents might even have been kooky or may insane, but the little girl will grow up (if she's not dead) telling her experience and someone like you will disavow the whole story because scientifically, there were reasons for what might have occurred. The reasons can never take away the experience itself to the little girl, that is my point. To her it really happened, no matter what made it happened, and she should be believed, don't you think?
I try to think that I'm speaking for the people who are being judged for their experiences who cannot speak for themselves. And I don't make statements about anybody's personal experiences when I haven't experienced what they have.
posted by
b2008
on January 8, 2008 at 5:29 AM
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RedStatesMan - that's about the level of moronic drivel I expect from you
posted by
gomedome
on January 7, 2008 at 9:39 PM
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Demons!?
The devil doesn't chase who he already has in his back pocket.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on January 7, 2008 at 7:18 PM
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b2008 - sorry but it seems you missed the point entirely
I clearly state in this post that I do not doubt the experience (in most cases), I doubt the explanations. That is a conclusion based on some research and experience on the subject and in no way do I come close to even suggesting that people relating manifestation experiences are liars. Try to reel in your emotions when you are reading something you don't agree with. Doing so will stop you from making irrelevent and insulting statements such as this: "What gives you the moral authority to disbelieve one's view of what they saw." Morality has nothing to do with offering a credible scientific explanation as a possibility versus an irrational explanation prompted by religious conditioning and ignorance.
The word ignorance is relevant here because 99 people out of 100 cannot tell you the first thing about the effects of electro-magnetic energy on the human brain. This despite proven research on the subject including corroborative testing. If you want to counter my arguments, understand what I am saying first. If anything, you demonstrate my point for me in your insistence that a rational explanation implies some form of attack on the credibility of people who are describing things they have experienced to the best of their abilities.
posted by
gomedome
on January 7, 2008 at 5:34 PM
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Gomedome, so in other words, ...
...you are saying that you don't give credence to anybody's tales of spirits of any kind (good or evil). Is that correct? If so, why are you such a critic? What gives you the moral authority to disbelieve one's view of what they saw. There is no proof whatsoever that a muslim has never seen the Virgin Mary. If one had, he wouldn't tell another Muslim, don't you think, or he would surely be visiting his Allah. And then, those who do see spirits relate them to what they know in order to explain them. If a Muslim believes in ghosts but calls it something else, how would one know that he's talking about what we would consider a ghost? It's just a matter of semantics if you ask me. The point is when you see something that is out of the ordinary, you might call it anything, especially if you don't know what it is. And what about those things that are not drawn from the subject's knowledge? What do you consider that?
I'm as much as a believe as any Christian can be but I have never seen anything that relates to religion ever. When I feel close to God it is from within. I feel comfort, peace, an ease of which comes over me to make me feel everything is going to be alright. And when I pray to God, he has answered by prayers on more occasions that not.
I have read about all kinds of manifestations that no human being could even dream of, even if they were horror movie enthusiast. I read a story of a little girl experiencing a creature that physically left marks on her. She was a normal little girl that loved girly things. The creature that hurt her she described as a horrific looking entity. She went through all kinds of psychologists, tests of all kinds, brain scans, everything known to man and while she was sleep, she kept getting scratches that drew blood all over her body while she was manually strapped to a bed. I'm sure you can find something philosophical that would relate to this occurrence, but what in the world would make that little girl manifest something of that nature? You can't possibly say that it came into her mind because of something she either thought, imagined, or whatever.
If you're going to deny everything that can possibly happen to a human being, you are virtually calling everybody a liar because they don't believe what you believe. I'm sorry, I feel that is kind of shallow on your part. It's not that people don't want to hear what the likely reason could be, scientifically or spiritually, it's that people are looking more for a reason that explains why did it happen to that particular person. And when medical and science gets together with no factual reasoning behind an occurrence, I can't see how you can discount that analysis. Anything I could dig up to show you, you would discount it as being something manifested by the person who experienced it. That I cannot believe.
And then, too, what makes you think that you are the only correct analyzer of a specific circumstance? What makes you think you are right and everybody else is wrong? Isn't that a selfish way of perceiving life's issues? You are giving absolutely no one credit for having an analytical opinion other than yours. How can that be fair to everyone else in the world? You don't believe in God, but you give opinions that are Godly because there can be no other that makes sense to you. Please explain that, my friend!
posted by
b2008
on January 7, 2008 at 3:39 PM
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thoughtfulness - it is not an issue of keeping an open mind, nor is it an
issue of leaving people to believe as they will.
There is a real explanation for these experiences, if people want to continue to adhere to that which is disproven, I view it entirely as their problem.
posted by
gomedome
on January 7, 2008 at 1:08 PM
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Demons
Why not accept the fact they believe it was real, instead of trying so hard to disprove it? Just because you haven't had any such experience doesn't mean at all that it's not possible. Keep an open mind.
posted by
thoughtfulness
on January 7, 2008 at 12:38 PM
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