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...it only occurs...
posted by
b2008
on January 8, 2008 at 5:43 AM
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Gomedome...I understand exactly...
...what you are saying. I only gave you that sample of exorcism to prove that it still exist and the church still believes in exorcism because you indicated that basically, it doesn't occur except in poor or unintellectual countries. I was trying to show that it happens right here in America.
I believe highly in voodoo, but I refused to live with someone who believes in it like a science because it tends to drive people crazy. They act like insane individuals performing such voodoo rituals. And I never wanted to be around such a thing. That was my personal opinion only. I never indicated it the religion itself was viable. I could care less, because it's too scary for me to even consider.
I try to give you examples of how a lot of people see the world which may not be exactly how we see it. Voodoo and exorcism is a big deal to a lot of people, right here in America. That's why I gave you an example of the little girl who was forced to suffer because of her parent's beliefs in exorcism. So when or if she is ever to tell her story, there will be people (like yourself perhaps) who will not believe her. That was my purpose. Understand?
posted by
b2008
on January 8, 2008 at 5:42 AM
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b2008 - it isn't completely clear what side of the argument you are on
Using the word "selfish" is again irrelevant. The story of the little girl being choked last summer by a couple of nutcase guardians is exactly why education on the subject is important. A story such as this hardly gives the notion of demonic possession any form of validity, it merely demonstrates that there are some people amongst us that are primitive and ignorant. If you were to research this subject just a bit more you would also come to a second conclusion other than there are a lot of people that believe in this stuff. That would be the decline in belief of demonic possession worldwide and this decline is gaining momentum. Couple this with the drastic decline in performed exorcisms worldwide, (which in turn indicates far fewer possessions) a decline that has continued since medieval times and only one conclusion can be reached. Belief in mythical demons with the ability to possess human beings is the sole source of demonic possession. The belief itself, not anything real or substantiative is the cause.
I wonder why you offer a segment of poll results when the complete poll and previous polls like it solidify my contentions? The same poll sets the USA alone in the world in such beliefs. The results of the same poll in Canada showed that about 4 in 10 Canadians believe the devil exists but when the British are rolled into the mix, amongst these two countries of non US citizens; about 3.5 out of 10 believe the devil exists. Similar polls amongst other industrialized nations reduces this ratio even further. All your numbers really explain is why you are so willing to argue this subject.
Then you finish off speaking of voodoo and referring to it, or the belief in it, as insanity. I cannot disagree, it is a religion with many primitive aspects but this is where you forget who you are speaking to. Where I don't view belief in a God or a supreme being as anything but human nature, I view some of the primitive peripheral beliefs such as exorcism and demonic possession as insanity. You forget that I have no emotional stake in either of these two religions, one is just a little more primitive in its beliefs from my perspective.
posted by
gomedome
on January 7, 2008 at 10:25 PM
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Gomedome, well, again, I must say...
...that is a selfish, one-directional way of analyzing the devil sport of exorcism. This is happening today in this country more than one can imagine. Read below:
"Marquez and his 19 year old daughter-the 3 year olds mother, were performing a ritualistic "exorcism" to release demons from this child. The police reported that upon gaining access to the barricaded room, they encountered the mother covered in blood and "chanting something that was religious in nature". The grandfather was choking the young girl and had to be shot with a Tazer gun, twice, to free the girl and remove her to safety. On the bright side the grandfather promptly dropped dead after being taken into custody and was unable to be revived. Perhaps the exercised demons entered him and killed him;......that.......or the 100,000 volts of electricity that ran through his heart- twice. I guess we will have to wait for the autopsy. By the way they still haven't decided to charge the mother yet. In my opinion, not only should she be charged with accessory to attempted murder, child abuse, and a slew of whatever else the DA can come up with; She should undergo religious deprogramming. There is NO REASON WHATEVER to choke a 3 year old (even if she dumps a bottle of 18 year old single malt down the drain).
You are probably saying to yourself, Vince, this is just some crackpot who has an especially weird and perverted view of religion. Well you'd be wrong. According to a recent Gallup poll 7 out of 10 Americans believe in the devil. The Catholic church still sanctions the practice of exorcism. Among other faiths, many have differing views on demonic possession and exorcism; but it is widely practiced among many fundamentalist and evangelical Christian churches. To read more about what these groups believe in regarding possession et al click here. This is some seriously scary shit! Devils, demons, lions, tigers, and bears, OH MY!"
And I brought this to your attention only to say that "exorcism" to some people is as true as religion itself. When a person believes in anything, common rationale does not suffice. You could tell the world the reasons behind this phenomenon and there are plenty who wouldn't even consider listening because of their fear. Fear motivates a lot of people to do things that one might not consider sane. My first husband was from Haiti and what they believe insofar as voodoo is concerned was enough for me to say "bye, hope I never see you again." I wasn't about to talk sanity to an insane-minded individual. They don't want to hear that. And then innocent people, like this 3-year old little girl, has to suffer. Some are destined to encounter insanity from others that can ruin their lives. So whether you believe it or not, plenty do! And Those are the ones people fear. And you should, too!
posted by
b2008
on January 7, 2008 at 4:00 PM
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