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Chyrlann - that's a nice heartwarming story
It also falls into the category of "nuances of definition" . . . or in other words: The string of what seem like non coincidental occurances, coupled with a sense of overwhelming cognition when you just know that something is dead right . . . though equally puzzling to all religious perspectives, will be interpreted differently.
I see it as a bozo that finally got lucky when he opened his eyes to take in the world around him. Some men are like that.
posted by
gomedome
on January 5, 2008 at 9:10 PM
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Your headliner question; has the holy spirit visited you lately.....
Yes, frequently. Your question as to why some experience these visitations and others do not, has been explained to me in a simple analogy; a man walked the same route to work every day for eight years. One day while in the supermarket, a nice looking older woman approached him and said, "Hi there and how are you today?" He smiled curtiously but didn't know the woman from Adam. The woman continued conversing by saying, "I see you're wearing your green suit today. I've always wanted to tell you how nice it looks, the color compliments your eyes so well." At the compliment, the man looked directly into the woman's eyes and inquired, "I'm sorry, do I know you?" She laughed rather nervously. "Well, I couldn't say we know one another but we have been waiting at the same crossing on 42nd street for about eight years now." The man invited the woman for coffee and they have been married for thirty years now. The night before the encounter in the supermarket, the man had a vague dream of a woman with shockingly blue eyes. When he looked into her eyes he knew it was the exact woman in his dreams. The man had been seeing the woman for eight years and had never noticed her until this particular encounter. Life is all about perspective; gifts and offerings throughout life can be laid before us, opportunities of doors opened, voices spoken, walls or bridges built. We see and hear through selective audio and visual choosing.
Your perspectives and beliefs are your own. Your journey is of your choosing. Your opinions and beliefs are respected because they are yours and you are respected.
posted by
roadscross
on January 5, 2008 at 7:59 PM
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And furthermore...
...I can't help myself so please excuse me:).
But I've always been told that I'm a right-brained person because of my creativity and that left-brained people are like Dr. Spocks (logic rules). Are you a left-brain person? If so, is that why everything must be proven logically to you? Do you believe that the space trips are true and that we walked on the moon for real? Do you believe there could have been the impression of a skeletal face on the moon? Did you see those pictures. Is that all a possibility or what...?
posted by
b2008
on January 5, 2008 at 5:02 PM
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Gomedome
My only question is again the reason that something cannot be explained leaves me to believe that there are things that are out of our control. So if you don't believe in unexplained phenomenon, what say you about an exorcist? There have been Catholic preists who have performed these rituals to rid one of demons. Is this something that falls in the category of "luck" also? I don't think so. But you're saying that since religious unseen forces that do good things does not influence you, then non-religious unseen forces you should feel the same way about, am I right? You don't believe a person can be exorcised of demons and their actions cannot be due to demonic influences at all right? How can you discount such rituals when they have been well documented?
There's got to be some reasoning behind unexplained occurrences other than they don't exist. That's almost like saying no one has ever seen a ghost. I have never seen any phenomenons myself but I can't discount that others have not. What say you?
posted by
b2008
on January 5, 2008 at 4:40 PM
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b2008 - yes, that is exactly what I believe, the notion of unseen forces
acting to influence human outcomes is absurd to me.
Aside from the utterly random fashion that these supposed forces act upon human outcomes, it is only religious social conditioning that allows some people to ascribe these favorable outcomes to unseen forces. And for some reason it is only favorable outcomes that these unseen forces are given credit for. An example I used in the past is if one house is spared in a hurricane that destroys all other houses in the region, there are some people that will call this outcome a miracle. If on the other hand no houses are spared, these same people will refer to it as just bad luck.
posted by
gomedome
on January 5, 2008 at 4:21 PM
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...and luck?
posted by
b2008
on January 5, 2008 at 2:18 PM
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gomedome
And do you believe that if it's beyond our influence or control, that no other factors could possibly be in play other than psychics?
posted by
b2008
on January 5, 2008 at 2:17 PM
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b2008 - I'm using luck here for lack of a better word and as an all
encompassing term.
The physics of the fall was obviously not planned by either brother, for one; a number of factors aligned for a favorable outcome, the other was not so "lucky". In terms of favorable outcomes in our lives, we can certainly make or plan our own good fortune as we can contribute to our own misfortunes. There are some situations and outcomes that are beyond our influence or control.
posted by
gomedome
on January 5, 2008 at 1:49 PM
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So you believe in luck!
Now that's interesting. Do you believe that life is based on
luck really? Do you not believe that you can
make the wrong move at the wrong time? I really think that if they fell exactly in the same way and hit the ground exactly the same, then maybe both might have survived. I believe physics had a lot to do with that outcome, don't you think?
posted by
b2008
on January 5, 2008 at 6:33 AM
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b2008 - the obvious question becomes; "why not save both of them?"
It can only be random luck and misfortune that were the determinent factors. Some things just happen. Invisible entities saving one and not the other breaks down immediately as a rational explanation.
posted by
gomedome
on January 4, 2008 at 10:18 PM
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Holy Spirit...
...visited one of two brothers who both fell 500 feet from a building where they were window washers. One brother died and one brother didn't and will walk away from the accident in one piece. The doctors say it's a miracle. What do you think?
posted by
b2008
on January 4, 2008 at 8:37 PM
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Gomedome
I heard that!
posted by
b2008
on January 3, 2008 at 9:10 AM
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b2008 - I've always maintained that sentiment, as a matter of fact, I have
stated it as an ideal many times in this blog over the years.
Unfortunately, reality is a bit different.
posted by
gomedome
on January 3, 2008 at 9:02 AM
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Gomedome, if we can agree...
...on that point alone, then it's a first step to understanding and accepting one another. That's all people should try to strive for -- that little bit of communication that is acceptable to those communicating. It breaks the ice and the myth of how one might have originally felt about the other's beliefs.
posted by
b2008
on January 3, 2008 at 8:19 AM
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Living_Life_Large - exactly - even if someone does not believe in a divine
entity, the point is well made.
Those claiming to feel the presence of something greater than themselves and are inspired by it, could surely whip up some form a guidebook relevent to today. They would also be doing so from a far more extensive knowledge base.
posted by
gomedome
on January 3, 2008 at 8:06 AM
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Abraham (Abraham-Hicks) asked one
(paraphrased) why would you choose a something written hundreds of years ago that has been through hundreds of translations to guide your life today when you have access to the same Source, Guidance? Hmmmmm . . .?????
posted by
Living_Life_Large
on January 3, 2008 at 6:17 AM
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A-and-B - that might be a sign of a coming thunderstorm
posted by
gomedome
on January 2, 2008 at 7:42 PM
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b2008 - Re: Gomedome, but you know...
I couldn't agree more, what works for someone as a means of enhancing their personal wellbeing is all that matters.
posted by
gomedome
on January 2, 2008 at 7:41 PM
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How do people explain it when their hairs stand on end?
posted by
A-and-B
on January 2, 2008 at 7:07 PM
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Gomedome...
...to answer your question, something visited me this evening to calm my last nerve for sure. But it was comforting and peaceful and I needed it. I don't know what exactly to call it, but it was right on time.
posted by
b2008
on January 2, 2008 at 4:16 PM
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Gomedome, but you know...
...the way people find comfort that is good should be applauded instead of ridiculed. I believe anything we do that enhances the good we need to share with each other cannot be that bad. It doesn't seem to matter to me how that good comes across, as long as it does. Just because an Atheist don't believe in God doesn't make him an ungodly person. As long as you treat people with respect and goodness, whatever you believe shouldn't even be an issue. However goodness shows it head should be accepted by all. You are good and I know you're an Atheist. That doesn't bother me at all anymore because you showed me respect. And I thank you for that.
posted by
b2008
on January 2, 2008 at 4:11 PM
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FineYoungSinger - I guess that would be the case if a person believed we
needed to be saved from anything but ourselves.
posted by
gomedome
on January 2, 2008 at 1:52 PM
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Troosha - I couldn't agree more - I view such a contention as another form
of self serving condescention.
If I read an ancient religious manuscript, I see things like people throwing rocks at those they don't like, beating their slaves, beating their women and a whole lot of other stuff that to me is nonsensical in a modern world. The idea of needing an invisible interpreter is the grandaddy of all whoppers offered by apologetics. The next thing you know they will be saying that the true meaning is a secret.
posted by
gomedome
on January 2, 2008 at 1:51 PM
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Re: FineYoungSinger - to insist that any document holds the key to salvation
Actually, Salvation isn't ours to acheive or earn, but is given freely, and is ours for the taking.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on January 2, 2008 at 1:42 PM
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b2008 - expanding one's knowledge is the key
It is not just a coincidence that the vast majority of paranormal, spiritual, iconic or demonic manifestations take place in parts of the world that are collectively less educated.
posted by
gomedome
on January 2, 2008 at 1:40 PM
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gomedome
A book, a bible, a record of time, hieroglyphics on the wall of a cave, or “scriptures” written upon parchment paper can all be read and even interpreted without being filled with the Holy Spirit. Some, perhaps, feel or experience the Holy Spirit when doing so but it is not a prerequisite to understanding words that have been laid out for all to read and all to interpret in the way in which they deem fit.
posted by
Troosha
on January 2, 2008 at 12:46 PM
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I believe everything here makes sense to me...
...especially since no one knows the capacity of the human brain, its limits or scope. And since the unconscious mind never ceases, and our conscious mind takes in familiar or learned behaviors mainly, it is quite true that there could be portions of our brains that could send messages to us for varying reasons for our protection or to increase our scope to make us want to learn more. It's just a shame that most of us will never know what gives us our comfort in religion other than what we feel is comforting and safe. That's why I'm trying to expand my knowledge to accept and explore every possibility my brain is capable to consuming.
posted by
b2008
on January 2, 2008 at 12:36 PM
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thoughtfulness - I would never say that I doubt an individual's experience
I have no doubt that the experience itself was real enough, I only doubt the explanation. If you were not raised in a society that is predominantly Christian, your explanation would not include the possibility of angels. In that, social conditioning and the prior knowledge of these entities has given you the explanation.
posted by
gomedome
on January 2, 2008 at 12:21 PM
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Ciel - I agree with that - especially when you say:
"To me, it suggests simply an opening of the conscious self to the information and processing of the Right Brain."
We are more or less all constructed the same way, some of us have heightened abilities in certain areas, both mental and physical, some of us do not. Our species has had a natural tendency to accredit all that it does not understand to some higher power, when it is clear that the innexplicable falls into two categories. That which we will never understand and that which has a better explanation. For me; if the explanation is not universally applicable to all humans and/or derived from one specific religious construct, it has little meaning. In this; the human brain, how it works, how it is affected by stimuli and how it can be so easily manipulated are the keys to findng some of the answers.
posted by
gomedome
on January 2, 2008 at 12:14 PM
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FineYoungSinger - to insist that any document holds the key to salvation
would be a form of idolotry.
Without even discussing the validity of one ancient manuscript over another, there are far too many people that believe the book itself is to be revered. They are just books, the observations of ancient men in loosely coherent historical chronicles. If there is such a thing as salvation it can only be achieved by actions and the accompanying enlightenment.
posted by
gomedome
on January 2, 2008 at 12:00 PM
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An experience you may not have had.
I had something (an angel I believe) shove my arm to keep me from changing lanes and causing a terrible accident or possibly killing someone as I was in a Big Truck then. I have also had something stop my truck before certain impact. I know it happened plain as day even though I can't prove it to anyone, I feel compelled to share it. I don't drive anymore but have no doubt in God and angels. Our experiences can change everything we believe in.
posted by
thoughtfulness
on January 2, 2008 at 11:23 AM
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One element to consider is the human brain,
which has something to do with the human mind.
We do our conscious and linear thinking with the Left Brain, according to the Right/Left Brain model. The Right Brain processes in a wholistic, non-linear fashion and does not speak to us in grammatical constructs, but in feelings, images, complexes of sensory rather than intellectual design. Its capabilities are immense--consider the ability of one brain to support multiple whole personalities (as in a true multiple personality syndrome)each with its own complete set of abilities, even to the physical--such as one persona needing glasses and another with perfect vision; one can play piano, another can't; one is a math genius, another can't handle long division...
And as to the whole functioning of the human brain and mind... We know so little, we can hardly claim to have the last word on what all goes on in there, or comes from there!
Sometimes we get something drifting in from the unconsciousness of the Right Brain that impacts our conscious awareness as coming from outside us altogether--especially if we are believing we are all consciousness, and that if it isn't conscious it doesn't count. Or it is God.
I can imagine alien races coming to Earth to ogle at the only race that worships its own Right Brain...
Visitation of the Holy Spirit, to some, with a different model of reality, means a kind of possession by something beyond themselves. To me, it suggests simply an opening of the conscious self to the information and processing of the Right Brain.
posted by
Ciel
on January 2, 2008 at 10:35 AM
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I have a question regarding the word of God:
Don't you think it's a form of idolotry to make any claim that the Bible is a means to salvation?
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on January 2, 2008 at 8:40 AM
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