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Re: FineYoungSinger - but there is no conclusion?
no silly not about the Jesus implication---I meant about the "primitive" people.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on December 12, 2007 at 11:50 AM
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I ascribe to being led by the Holy Spirit>>>>sam
posted by
sam444
on December 11, 2007 at 11:24 AM
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FineYoungSinger - but there is no conclusion?
I intentionally only made a vague implication that Jesus Christ may have had some of the same mentalist talents as some of our contemporaries.
posted by
gomedome
on December 11, 2007 at 10:59 AM
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I was with you until the conclusion.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on December 11, 2007 at 9:56 AM
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Something to ponder over
posted by
Kayzzaman
on December 11, 2007 at 8:47 AM
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SEEDLINGS - I'm attempting to say a little more than that but yes, that's
basically it, the mind is a very powerful thing.
But at the same time; the mind, or more accurately the human brain, is also a very easy thing to manipulate, deceive, influence or physically stimulate.
posted by
gomedome
on December 11, 2007 at 8:37 AM
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Xeno-x - in all that you describe there were likely a number of influences
at work.
We cannot simply discount the entire spectrum of paranormal or seemingly supernatural experiences as bogus. For many the experiences are real enough, I've had two very strange experiences in my life as well. Things I have yet to find a suitable explanation for. But what we do collectively instead of subjecting these experiences to intense objective scrutiny, is to rely on mythologies, pseudo science or folklore as a means of deriving our understanding. I am convinced that many of the explanations are much simpler than that.
There are a number of common elements that comprise human perception. Physical stimuli upon the human brain is hardly ever offered as a reason for some of the experiences as chronicled by others, yet we know that the human brain is very easily affected by such things as a minor fluctuation in ambient electromagnetic energy. We also know that the human brain can very easily be manipulated by the power of suggestion, hypnosis etc. etc. Then we must consider our human penchant to filter all of the information we receive to come to preconceived conclusions or to satisfy our inherent bias. When an individual is subjected to any combination of these factors, or all of them, we find ourselves attempting to explain the inexplicable by utilizing archaic principles we have been conditioned to accept. As with most mysteries in life, we have to learn that we have a lot to learn.
posted by
gomedome
on December 11, 2007 at 8:30 AM
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gee,
I must have misread the Declaration, for I was under the impression that each and every human on the face of this great planet had the right to believe the way they wanted to. HOW VERY STUPID OF ME> oh, by the way, Why don't you check out a cd on Beatworkz Music, called the Healing Path. IT might explain a couple or things, or at least provide one persons opinion of how people perceived someone who could walk on water or turn the water into wine 2000 years ago. They were probably terrified, wouldn't you be if you saw someone walking on water??? I beleive it is song #9 named HE.
jesse_jean
posted by
jesse_jean
on December 11, 2007 at 8:24 AM
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Pat_B - one of the most powerful influences pertaining to these things has
to be our entertainment mediums.
Movies such as Stigmata, The Exorcist, End of Days etc. or TV shows such as Touched by an Angel, all serve to re-enforce long held mythologies and for some offer proof of the validity of these concepts. That's the scary part, I've had people offer quotes from movies to back their contentions pertaining to the existence of the supernatural realm. What I find remarkable about all of this is how people will not concede the obvious in that all so called supernatural, paranormal or simply inexplicable experiences are almost exclusively reaction based. In that we observe (or experience) human reaction to unseen or inexplicable stimula yet almost exclusively default to non scientific reasons as a means of explaining these influences.
posted by
gomedome
on December 11, 2007 at 8:16 AM
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GOME
Ummm, I think I know what you are saying. The mind is a powerful thing.... we believe what we want to believe and see what we want to see. Call it magic, or call it real, call it what you want, but the mind is a powerful thing, the most powerful thing.
posted by
SEEDLINGS
on December 11, 2007 at 7:59 AM
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excuse me for seeming
to come down on what some might consider to be the "ignorant" side of the matter.
I am one, I think, that tests matters, as to how valid they are.
I don't I believe, ascribe to invalidities.
However, as I have mentioned a couple of posts, I have experienced what could be termed paranormal phenomena.
Mainly, prophetic dreams -- the dreams predicted outcomes that I viewed as unfavorable; yet they did come to pass.
I would also include such things as "being led" to do certain things, which ad a favorable outcome, and yet, these can be viewed as subjective rather than objective.
I tested a parapsychologist once -- had several sessions with her, basically said not much of anything, waited to see what she would come up with -- mainly I was mum. She was not fantastic, and yet, she did say and predict certain things that impressed me to a certain extent. She mentioned that my first wife had problems with my Dad's alcohol problems -- and that was true to an extent. She also predicted that I would marry my second wife, while, at a separate session, warning me against it -- but that can be placed in the "doubtful" category.
One thing that she did predict was that the water pipes would freeze where I lived. Where I lived at the time was not well taken care of and the gas had been turned off at one time and I figured that was where it would happen. I moved to a better place, then one night, while I was staying downstairs with someone else, because I had not closed a door well enough, it blew open, the apartment got colder and indeed the water pipes did freeze -- but not burst, thankfully. It seemed that the event was inevitable -- I moved to avoid it, but couldn't. Where I had moved from the water pipes were just fine.
This leads me to believe that something exists outside of what we sense normally. But I can't define it.
As you have intimated, many people have already come to a conclusion about a "spiritual" world, and then attempt to fit matters into their perceptions.
They have already come to the conclusion; they simply manipulated data to fit that conclusion.
posted by
Xeno-x
on December 11, 2007 at 7:25 AM
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Here's the thing. There's a format, an accepted history and background,
some of which crosses most major religious traditions. There are angels, demons, supernatural beings, miracles, all kinds of things that in fiction writing, would come under the heading of "magical realism."
These ingrained concepts are very useful to writers. We rely on these assumptions in creating plots and characters. So far, I've seen no neutrals when it comes to the debate about the existence of god, or the existence of a particular immortal. Even athiests have a position on the matter and the controversies around good (what is good?) and evil (what is evil?) are sure to create lively discussions, even angry insistence that one's point of view is THE truth.
posted by
Pat_B
on December 11, 2007 at 7:24 AM
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