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bpitter2007 - you've done everything but get the point and responded to a
lot of things that were neither stated nor implied.
There is nothing in my earlier comment other than an innocuous explanation of why the promotion of a belief in an end times scenario is unacceptable to those who are not part of the religion that holds it as a belief. Everything else that you have blathered on about is irrelevant, based on a lot of assumptions and seems to be a mish mash of emotional responses. No one wants to change your beliefs. Where I rarely speak for Kooka, I can say with confidence that neither of us give a "hot turd" what you or anyone else believes. The point and I dare say, an influencing factor for why both Kooka and I write blogs in this category, is that some religious beliefs envelop the unwilling, some religious beliefs are detrimental to the wellbeing of others and some religious beliefs affect society in negative ways.
The question you posed earlier was (paraph.) "Why would you care what others believe?" pertaining to armageddon. I thought I gave you a pretty darned good answer but now I realize that I should have been more concerned about your hair getting messed up by the wind created when the point when sailing over your head.
posted by
gomedome
on December 10, 2007 at 8:50 PM
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bpitter
I see you have now encountered Gomedome. Just so you know, he is an agnostic, not an atheist. But his point is very much valid here.
You will not be able to convince me that the idea that the end of the world is a positive thing to be celebrated. It is truly counter productive to the greater needs of our society. Could you tell me what is beautiful about the end of the world? According to the Bible most people are going to suffer greatly and face some pretty intense punishments. Even if you are going to be saved, what God is going to do to those who are not to be saved is far from being a beautiful thing. Can you honestly say that all the people you care about are going to be saved? Do you honestly believe that is the rapture was to happen tomorrow that you would not have to watch those you care about suffering here on Earth because they just got it wrong? If you are correct and the end days are coming, then chances are that there will be people close to you who are not going to make it. could you tell me what is positive about that?
Also, I do not see any 'hell on earth' going on here. So the idea that this world is going to end and that people like me will be punished through a series of rather cruel and outrageous tortures by God seems to not be something desirable in the least. I enjoy my life here on Earth and find joy in so many things in my life. In fact I enjoy life here on earth so much I have no desire for an end to it. I see no need for this 'paradise' you and others embrace. I would rather make the most of what I know I have here and now above waiting and hoping that there is something better.
As for why this concerns me, well Gomedome hit on it. It does make people dangerous. Also, it is really, really annoying to hear about it all the time, since it is a depressing and extremely pessimistic idea. Outside of that, I was expressing my views on it here and why I feel it is a disturbing thing to believe in. Even if it does not directly affect me, I can still have opinions about it. It seems there are more than enough believers out there who feel I should know what they believe, so I see no reason why I should not express my beliefs.
As for the crime thing, our youth are not engaging in crime any where near as horrendous as what was common in centuries past and there was truly no empathy from those committing the acts back then. We are by far more empathic towards others now days than what man was in the past. I am fairly positive that it is much less than 1% of our youth who have committed murder. You make it sound like some kind of fad that all the teenagers are doing now days. We truly are not the great evil society that some groups have painted us to be. Due to how rare these events are becoming they are getting MORE attention from the news and so it feels like it is getting worse. This is a pattern that is documented. Crime rate goes down as the coverage of crime goes up.
posted by
kooka_lives
on December 10, 2007 at 3:37 PM
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No, you may not!
Did you read my blog "You Are The Greatest"? Evidently NOT! If you read it, you would know already that I'm not trying to get to Paradise any time soon. I'm trying to live as long as I can and die when I can't help it. So, believe me, I'm no threat to society as you call it.
And when you speak about "everyone", who died and made you spokesman for everybody else? That's just a little joke so don't take personally. But I can't speak for no one but me and those I know. You can't either!
But God can!
Have a nice day
.
babs
posted by
b2008
on December 10, 2007 at 2:38 PM
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If I May
...sorry I knocked myself out by mistake. I was saying:
I know there are many fanatical ideas out there that are more harmful to mankind than religion. I just imagine anyone feeling that "Paradise" could be a threat. If you don't believe in it, don't listen to it! It's as simple as that.
You guys are flipping me out believing that something so beautiful can be so harmful. And all that intellectual bullcrap don't mean a darn thing to me. I'm going to believe what I believe no matter how you or anyone else feels. And vice versa with you. I don't push my feelings off on you so please don't push yours off on me. Tell it to somebody who wants to hear it.
If you're an Atheist, talk to another Atheist about those feelings, NOT ME! I could give a "hot turd" how anybody feels about me and religion. That's something personal only to me and no one has the right to interfere in my thoughts no matter how strange they might be to you.
Didn't mean to be rude, just frank! Because if you don't want to hear my reasons for why I believe that way, I certainly don't want to hear yours. It's as plain as that.
I hope we can agree to disagree in peace. Thank you.
posted by
b2008
on December 10, 2007 at 2:28 PM
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Re: bpitter2007 - If I may
Hogwash! Have you any idea how many scenarios that are NOT glamorous at all are out there among the many millions of people in this world? And you're trying to tell me that one little religious scenario is causing a "world of problems"? I
posted by
b2008
on December 10, 2007 at 2:22 PM
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bpitter2007 - If I may
The promotion of the glorious aspects of an end times scenario is the antithesis of solving problems that face our world and our societies today. In simpler terms; it is an entirely unhealthy mindset to adopt and promote, especially when it is done within an unrealistic fantasy framework based on an obscure and primitive mythology. The severity of the implications of this mentality is demonstrated for us in sheer numbers of participants in interactive forums such as this: HERE, with undo credence given to sites such as this: HERE.
We have but one planet to sustain our species. To have a group of people actively promoting the "positive" aspects of the end of life as we know it on this planet, is unacceptable for everyone else. Then there is the remote possibility of one of these knuckleheads pro-actively attempting to fulfill what they view as prophecies derived from these primitive mythologies. All members of all societies have the inherent responsibility of reasonable social expectation to be considered as contributing members to that society. To expect other members of the societies we live in to not promote a mindset of dropping out of life and ignoring efforts that may contribute to solving some of our problems is a reasonable expectation.
posted by
gomedome
on December 10, 2007 at 1:49 PM
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Kooka
I don't understand what is so dangerous about talking about the end of the world. I think talking about killing all the Jews is a hell of a lot worse than something supposedly beautiful. Why does it upset you so? It's just a comforting and nice thought that should make you feel more at ease about leaving this hell on earth.
There's a lot more being said on TV daily that is much worse than Armageddon. Plus, only religious people believe in Paradise at the end of Armageddon anyway. Why do you even discuss it or let it bother you when you're an Atheist. I don't even consider what Atheist people say about God so it wouldn't bother me at all.
I enjoy reading your views as a person, not in regards to religion, because I know you don't believe in religion. So, I wouldn't even try to converse with you about it. I can understand what they are saying and I truly believe it myself. And I can understand why you don't believe it. But I can't understand why it bothers you to even hear it. You don't have to listen you know.
Plus, the elderly (I prefer to call them) are not doing a third as much crime as young people. I just mentioned it because young people seem to be doing such horrendous crimes nowadays. Sure, when we were young, we all have done some things that we keep in the closet, but I'm sure you never murdered anybody and I haven't either. There's a big difference in the types of crime being done today than way back when. It seems that our young people have no "empathy" and don't care about people like they should. Why is that, do you think? You love your children and I loved mine, so I know they have empathy and caring for their fellow man. But the children that don't seem to care are causing a lot of pain in a lot of ways that you would think only adults should be responsible for. When a child can torture another child, I would think of an adult doing that for perverted reasons, not a child. That's what I was talking about. The total gross uncaring involved in adolescent crimes.
I cannot agree with you about "the end of times" being a dangerous and disturbing world view. Death is death and there's no guarantee you will be chosen to be resurrected to live in Paradise forever, and there's no reincarnation, according to the Word. So do you really believe the Jihad terrorists are killing themselves because of the "end of times" philosophy when "to kill" is the ultimate sin? I don't think so. They will never see vested virgins anywhere in this world or the next and they will never know life ever again. They are just DEAD!
Thanks for your comments, Kooka, it's a pleasure talking with you and I hope we can be friends even though we have opposite viewpoints insofar as religion is concerned.
babs
posted by
b2008
on December 10, 2007 at 10:28 AM
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The narrowing of the mind, kooka, to engage religion is definitely
the funnel to hell...
posted by
saul_relative
on December 9, 2007 at 10:47 PM
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bpitter
All one needs to do is study history to see that things are getting better. It is just that the rarer the actions become the more the news covers it all.
As for the young doing crime, well no duh. I did a lot I knew I was not suppose to do when I was young. Although the old commit crime as well. I do hope my boys behave themselves better than I did. As for addressing the problems? I would love to know how you think that can be done. I think as a society we are dealing with as best as possible. The only other thing we can do is get rid of politicians like Bush who create more problems by doing all they can to encourage the conditions that create more urban crime. So don't vote conservative if you want to make a difference there.
Do you believe that a person who openly expresses that the end of the world is a great thing and should be celebrated and desired to be anything but deranged? This kind of thing goes beyond belief. It is a desire for the world to end and a claim that is will be a great thing. I cannot see such a view as being healthy in any light. I have talked to people who believe this and I really can say honestly that they are not healthy.
I very agree that we need to be nicer and we should respect each other's beliefs in general. But if I see a belief that is obviously a very disturbing and dangerous world view, I am going to openly and honestly say that it is a dangerous and disturbing world view. I just cannot see anything positive to be found in embracing the end of the world.
posted by
kooka_lives
on December 9, 2007 at 5:18 PM
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No one knows when the end will be or what it will take to cause the end of time>>>>>>>sam
posted by
sam444
on December 9, 2007 at 4:46 PM
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I hope it is a few 100 years away!
But since that's something I really don't know, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I can go in peace no matter when it's my time. But to hear you say that things are getting better doesn't seem that way to me.
We have crime nowadays committed by more young people than old almost. What is happening with our young? Don't you think that's something that needs to be addressed? I'm sure you don't want your kids to be influenced by all that young drama, do you?
I just don't believe calling people deranged is nice at all. Everyone has their own beliefs and way of seeing things in this world. Just because they don't see it your way doesn't mean they're deranged. They are just different, that's all. What kills me is the fact that when people are different and expouse different views, other people have a tendency to put them down if they don't believe in their viewpoint.
Since an opinion is like having another butthole, nobody needs another one, yet everybody has an opinion. We need to be more considerate of other people's views whether we believe they are right or wrong. They still have the right to express them. That's just conversation. Everybody who writes a blog here isn't necessarily asking for only readers that believe in what they're saying. If that was the case, many wouldn't have any readers at all, don't you think?
We should learn to be nicer to each other and agree to disagree and then everybody will have an equal chance to express themselves without somebody calling them an idiot. I don't care if anybody believes what I believe or not, but I do care about how I'm treated believing the way I believe. We all deserve respect if nothing else.
babs
posted by
b2008
on December 9, 2007 at 3:37 PM
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