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arGee - the parrallel that I saw was to that of a middle centuries fiefdom
Resplendent with a willful blindness to all that lay outside of the Lord and Master's territorial walls. I see the same mentalities, including the ability to self justify anything by attempting to adhere to extremely primitive doctrine. Doctrine I might add that was written by a man that could only be considered as a late centuries equivalent of a town jester. My point was that this primitive social anomoly manifested itself in the modern era. Warren Jeffs may well have harbored the complete mindset of a European Monarch but he is not of the culture nor of that era. His shockingly large band of fundamentalists became the worst case in history of a parasitic society living within and feeding off of a larger social infrastructure.
We certainly do have to put a stop to some of their practices. Their euphamism of "Bleeding the Beast" describing their incredible manipulation of the welfare system, is grounds for any legitimate action against them. Lifestyle choices have to pay their own freight, regardless of descending from lineage that routinely hears voices in their heads from God.
posted by
gomedome
on November 16, 2007 at 8:14 PM
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I was trying to draw a parallel, Gome…
To the way that human culture in general comes to accept things that really are an affront to reasonable people. I was suggesting that the subject of your comments is really part of an accepted lifestyle within some parts of our greater human culture, and that getting rid of it may ultimately be impossible.
(I guess I didn’t do a very good job of making the connections.)
posted by
arGee
on November 16, 2007 at 1:41 PM
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Re: FineYoungSinger - I have much the same reaction but my perspective is
This is SO true, gome, all of it. I get where you are going with this, and I don't see what you've stated here as a generalization, but as a fundamental truth. I could point out dozens of incidents across all of Christianity that support exactly what you are saying here, and have experienced incidents directly in my location as well, both inside of my own religion and from members of other religions. It's so easy to manipulate a person that is seeking God, because they want to believe, and are willing to trust their leaders blindly to guide them toward this paradise that they seek. Even a seemingly bright, intellectual person can fall into the trap of a false doctrine, and find themselves being led by a Warren Jeffs or the like. A leader in any religion has the potential to use their role to exercise power over their followers, and it happens far too often in all religions.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 15, 2007 at 4:55 PM
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FineYoungSinger - I have much the same reaction but my perspective is
slightly different than that of religious adherents.
I view all religious groups of all religions as communities with the same potential for this type of abuse. As a generalization, I know that such a statement is unfair and certainly this type of abuse does not exist in all religious communities but it becomes much more accurate and all encompassing when all religious groups are viewed objectively utilizing a number of simple qualifiers. The main aspects that have influenced the manifestation of the anomaly which is now the CLDS are present in varying degrees within almost all groups that form associative communities as a result of an underlying religious philosophy or set of doctrines.
Common to all religious groups are the means of proliferating their message in indoctrination, social and peer pressure, communal ostracism, isolationism and some form of leadership or central pontificate. Any of these factors can be the catalyst for the manifestation of this type of social anomaly. Wayward elements within leadership, especially the charasmatic, self proclaimed messiah types, working in conjunction with all, or a number of the other factors is what seems to be the most common. But I have seen (and experienced) isolationism, geographical as opposed to social, become the propagating factor to a similar anomaly despite a central pontificate and a supposedly uniform set of doctrines.
Human beings can be led to adopt the most absurd of circumstances as social norms if the motivation is compelling enough. There are few factors in life more compelling for most people than religious beliefs.
posted by
gomedome
on November 15, 2007 at 12:32 PM
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Antonionioni - now that is a loss to the Blogit community
Here's wishing you good fortune in your future endeavors.
posted by
gomedome
on November 15, 2007 at 9:32 AM
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arGee - how are the transgressions of foreign cultures in a bygone era even
even remotely related to the establishment of a modern era religiously based oppressive social structure?
Aside from a few parallels that can be drawn, I don't see your point.
posted by
gomedome
on November 15, 2007 at 9:31 AM
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Thanks Gome for many enjoyable posts. All the best, I'm leaving today.
posted by
Antonionioni
on November 15, 2007 at 8:40 AM
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What you present, Gome…
Is nothing new. Modern European royalty is nothing more than the offspring of a bunch of thugs that bullied and butchered their way to the top of the heap, and then maintained their position by brute force. It’s as if the Mafia took over New York a hundred years ago, and their offspring are ruling today as “legitimate” heads of state.
posted by
arGee
on November 15, 2007 at 8:25 AM
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That entire culture triggers my gag reflex.
My stepson lives in Arizona, and volunteers at a facility that rescues banished boys from the streets. The level of education in that cult is poor, so when they banish these boys they have very few, if any, survival tools. They have no skills, no practical training in anything, are barely literate, and have few social skills from being isolated for their entire lives. They are convinced, because they have been banished from their communities that preach love of God, that they are worthless. It's beyond sad.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 15, 2007 at 5:39 AM
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Well, now you've done it.
lime jello, warren jeffs, lotsa wiggle room somehow
lime jello, warren jeffs, perversion elevated to a show
lime jello, warren jeffs, offending heaven here below
lime jello, warren jeffs, wrap him up, he's gotta go.
posted by
Pat_B
on November 15, 2007 at 5:23 AM
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Gome
You're right, it is amazing .....'what human beings are capable of in manufacturing their Gods.' But they always have and always will manufacture some gods! It appears to fulfill a fundamental human need, which only a few of us do not experience. Which is why I, as an agnostic, take the position that it is probably of advantage to explain why some gods are better than others...
Incidentally, the birth rate favors males, by about 5%, and there are many complicated factors while women tend to outlive men...
posted by
Nautikos
on November 15, 2007 at 5:05 AM
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gomedome
thanks for sharing
posted by
richinstore
on November 15, 2007 at 4:42 AM
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