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I was so impressed by this story as a youngster, Gome…

That I tried to burn a wart off my hand with a candle. I accomplished it, but there is a vast gulf between that and burning off your entire hand. I did learn that a person can exercise more self control that you might think. But I tend to agree with you – the Roman soldier story probably falls into the realm of urban myth.

posted by arGee on November 10, 2007 at 11:46 AM | link to this | reply

It doesn't have to be religion, Gome..- arGee; that's a humorous story when

it is examined with any depth.

That was one heck of a strong willed individual who could not only withstand the excruciating pain of severe burns but also was able to overcome the human body's defence mechanism's such as losing consciousness or going into shock. If I were to give my non professional opinion on the matter, I would say that being able to burn one's hand like that is about as likely as a human being's ability to suffocate themselves by holding their own hands over their faces. Yet we see Ninja masters do it all of the time in the movies.

posted by gomedome on November 10, 2007 at 11:35 AM | link to this | reply

It doesn't have to be religion, Gome...

I don’t have the details, but there is an historical account of a Roman general preparing for battle against an overwhelming Persian foe. The Persian general came to visit the Roman general under a flag of truce. He explained that it was inevitable that the Persians would win, if only because of their superior numbers – about five to one. He suggested that if the Roman general surrendered, they could spare the lives of all the common soldiers who would otherwise perish. In response, the Roman general called one of his guards and ordered him to place his hand over the burning brazier in the tent. Without hesitation (the story goes), the soldier held his hand over the flame until it was charred to a crisp, without a whimper. Following that demonstration, the Persian general drew his sword and handed it to the Roman general, knowing in his heart that even at five to one odds, he had no chance of winning against such warriors.

posted by arGee on November 10, 2007 at 9:30 AM | link to this | reply

Re: FineYoungSinger - That's the point - most history and not only religious

It sure doesn't. The worst part is that the homogenized versions dillute the message. Great stuff, gome.

posted by FineYoungSinger on November 9, 2007 at 1:42 PM | link to this | reply

FineYoungSinger - That's the point - most history and not only religious

history, is homogenized for later consumption.

I think of the story of the famous battle of the Alamo. We were always taught that every last man in that fort fought bravely until their dying breath. In recent years, they have found a trail of discarded weapons and clothing fragments stretching for a few miles from the site. It seems that the more likely reality is that the remaining forces attempted to run for their lives and were hunted down and slaughtered by the Mexican army.

We have been conditioned by our nature, with the help of self serving historical chronicles and a little prompting by our entertainment mediums, to buy into the notion of great men dying brave and stoic deaths for the sake of their beliefs or philosophies. In real life it doesn't work quite like that.

posted by gomedome on November 8, 2007 at 9:53 AM | link to this | reply

Re: FineYoungSinger - I've heard that story as well and I agree that Faith and

You make me think of another event--the Crucifixion. I've seen films depicting Christ just laying there and not reacting to having spikes hammered through his hands. Give me a break. I believe He was God, but I also believe he was human, with nerves under that there skin. He'd have been screaming his head off, and any words he uttered from the cross as he died were between whimpers and cries of pain.

People need to believe that faith and conviction will stop pain and suffering, but guess what? It doesn't.

posted by FineYoungSinger on November 8, 2007 at 7:58 AM | link to this | reply

FineYoungSinger - I've heard that story as well and I agree that Faith and

an individual's convictions can be powerful motivators but . . . .

To a certain extent you illustrate the point I am making in this post. It is not likely that anyone is, or ever has been capable of reciting anything while they are "burning to death". Maybe prior to being exposed to flames intense enough to kill them they may be able to spit out a few sentences, if they have an extremely strong will and an incredibly high pain threshold. Depictions we have seen in movies or have been told in stories of incredibly brave people "keeping their cool" (forgive the bad pun) while being immolated by flames are mostly nonsense. Once engulfed by flames, a human being is almost instantly suffocated by the fire's consumption of all available oxygen.

posted by gomedome on November 8, 2007 at 7:47 AM | link to this | reply

Faith, convictions, all are powerful motivators.

This post made me think of a story I was told in a HS class--bear with me, it's been a long time since those days...

We were discussing the Salem witch trials. A man stood in protest of the burnings of what he felt were innocent women. He was in turn burned at the stake. To prove he was not a witch, though, while he burned to death he recited the Lord's Prayer verbatim, as no witch would be able to do, according to the powers that be. This planted some doubt in a number of witnesses.

Principle, conviction, faith will motivate a person to sacrifice themselves for the cause across all walks of life.