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Re: FineYoungSinger
I have to disagree that this is a case of splitting hairs. The fine lines that divide us are very important, and should be explored.
Your claiming that there is in fact a widespread acceptance of Christianity is your opinion, not a fact. Stating it as fact is no different than anyone on this site lumping together the belief systems of any other religion or moral code.
There are over 3000 denominiations of Christianity, whose beliefs--beliefs of Christ, who he is, what he did, what he taught, how to be a Christian--vary immensly through those denominations, and even within them from church to church, pastor to pastor, diocese to diocese, etc. Even in the Catholic and Orthodox churches, who adamantly claim unity within themselves, have been fighting since the Ascension both amongst and within themselves.
There are two versions of the ten commandments. There are dozens and dozens of translations of the Bible, and hundreds of interpretations as to what's written in the pages. How can there be any kind of widespread acceptance? Christians can't even agree whether Tradition or a Book hold the "absolute truth" of Christ's teachings.
If there is no unity, there can be no widespread acceptance, and there cannot be a when. If there is no when, there is no how. So again, you didn't answer my question.
Additionally, I'd like to address another comment I made. The part I left out (much to my embarassment, as I often think faster than I type, and assume more than I should--very much my bad) is that during the times of Christian persecution during the crusades, it was a government decision that led to this holy war, not a church decision. A key point to consider is that Bishops were not appointed by Rome, but by the monarchies of Europe, until the 1800's with the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire. The Empire is often equated with the Church, and this really shouldn't be the case, as more often than not, the Church was guilty by association (62 papacies worked in tandem with the Empire, which is why I say more often than not and not always). The crusades are an example of this---european monarchies acting in the name of the church.
It wasn't 2000 years of a church bashing belief into its people, but a fight from within between the real church, whose beliefs are NOT widely accepted, and the dictatorships that usurped power and used the church for their own gains. That fine line should be respected.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 29, 2007 at 8:58 AM
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FineYoungSinger - that's a rude comment - after taking the time to answer
your question you suggest that I dodged it?
I'm not quite sure what point you are attempting to make. Are you arguing that my use of the term "widespread acceptance" of Christianity is erroneous and that it is not widely accepted? If so, you have overlooked how I have qualified this statement in my earlier comment. As I stated earlier; I do not feel there is an answer to your question if you are looking for a specific time period. The only answer is: over an extended period of time. If you are in fact arguing that Christianity is not widely accepted, then the entire dialogue has been pointless, it has been nothing more than an exercise in splitting hairs over the definition of the term "widespread acceptance".
posted by
gomedome
on October 28, 2007 at 10:50 AM
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Re: FineYoungSinger - I wonder sometimes if you actually read my comments and
Sometimes I wonder, since you didn't answer my original question, which you dodged. Care to take a stab at my original question? In case you don't remember it, it was:
When did this "widespread acceptance" of the Christian God actually occur?
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 28, 2007 at 7:57 AM
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FineYoungSinger - I wonder sometimes if you actually read my comments and
posts before you respond.
I write this: "This growth took place the way all predominant religions grow, mostly by force. . ."
Then you respond with this: "Force: Christianity is not alone in forcing their religion down people's throats. Do we recall learning what the Crusades were all about? Can you say TURKISH INVASION?"
I'm really not interested in arguing for argument's sake.
posted by
gomedome
on October 23, 2007 at 7:01 AM
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Re: FineYoungSinger - that is a tough question to which I think there is no
That all depends upon how you look at it. From the other side, the first 300 years of Christianity were spent underground. Additionally, Christianity has been splintering off since the 600's, so there is no real "widespread" version of Christianity. There are today over 3000 denominations, and in all demoninations there are rifts, arguments and disagreements.
The council of Nicea: 250 people attended. I wouldn't consider that "many" believers; and the council's purpose was not to actually define anything, but to clear up confusion for the Church of Alexandria and decide when they would celebrate Easter.
Force: Christianity is not alone in forcing their religion down people's throats. Do we recall learning what the Crusades were all about? Can you say TURKISH INVASION?
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 23, 2007 at 5:48 AM
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A good angle of approach.
I suppose the argument is that God created the world, gave us free will, and dictated the Bible - what else was left to do. You never know though. Maybe there will be a sequel? A holy website perhaps or a divine podcast?
posted by
Antonionioni
on October 19, 2007 at 2:54 PM
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FineYoungSinger - that is a tough question to which I think there is no
specific answer.
"How" is a lot easier to answer than "when" (this is of course viewing 2 billion Christians worldwide as widespread acceptance and not referring to it tongue in cheek because they represent only about 1/3 of the earth's populace).
The myths of the messiah began several millennia ago, long before Christ's time and it is fair to say that mankind awaiting his arrival set the stage for his acceptance but we all know what happened when he arrived. There were countless others that had the messiah medal pinned on them before and after his time, all either not fulfilling the criteria or were losers to the JC fan club public relations war/cover up.
Still, it took time, momentum, the will of many believers and a pivotal decision voted upon at the council of Nicea, approximately 300 years after his death. After this point, the public relations war/cover up began in earnest, all other contenders for the messiah medal were either discredited or deleted from history. Once critical mass was reached, the beliefs of this religion, became self proliferating and grew into widespread acceptance over the centuries. This growth took place the way all predominant religions grow, mostly by force, either from within societies or by virtue of one society's influence over another.
posted by
gomedome
on October 19, 2007 at 11:31 AM
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question: When did this "widespread acceptance" of the Christian God
actually occur?
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 19, 2007 at 10:49 AM
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Laws governing reality have very little impact on the minds of the
religiously inclined, gomedome. Fantasy crutches for the mentally insecure...
posted by
saul_relative
on October 19, 2007 at 9:17 AM
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Gome,
I find this quite an interesting write that has some very substantial message to convey, and I am fully with you on "
Education has shown us that the human mind is very easy to manipulate".
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on October 19, 2007 at 6:53 AM
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Couldn't have said it better myself, Gome...
posted by
arGee
on October 19, 2007 at 6:41 AM
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