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Re: Re: Re: The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
babs, I don't offend very easily. I am in total agreement with you about non-reading of Bibles. I'm glad you came by and posted, and that you opened up a dialogue with me. Keep posting in your blog as well, you have a lot to say, and you've definitely got one reader!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 6, 2007 at 7:57 PM
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Re: Re: The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
Thank you for responding. I was only giving you my version anyway. I guess we all read and see what we want to:) I definitely meant no disrespect. But it looks like you've started a real interesting thread here. And I see that not many have read their Bibles either or they couldn't say some of the things they're saying. Oh well, thank you so much. It's such a release to say what you feel. God bless!
babs
posted by
b2008
on November 6, 2007 at 7:54 PM
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Re: The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
Hi babs....actually if you reread my post, you'll see that I never got into Chapter 3 of Genesis, which is where the story of the serpant and the fall of man resides. I mostly dealt with the few verses included in my post, but it's great that you have such passion. Genesis is a very complicated book, and I believe it should be taken a bite at a time. Thanks for reading!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 4, 2007 at 10:05 AM
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The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
What you say is YOUR interpretation of how you read the Bible. I have my own version and it is this:
Remember, in those days, no one had a "specific" definition of one day so the days could have been years in between one and the other. Remember, God separated the night from the day on the sixth day, I believe, and that could have taken a millenium. God did not specify that a day was 24 hours. So no one can truly say how long it took him to create everything.
Insofar as the Garden of Eden is concerned, that, too, might not have been just a small section. Remember, he originally wanted Adam and Eve to spread the garden all over the world with their children and everyone would have lived happily thereafter, without fearing death. It's only when Eve was enticed by the serpent (who was a bad Angel talking through the serpent) that they both experienced that part of the human pysche of being "bad". They never new "bad" before eating the apple. And God told them that if they did eat from that tree, they would surely DIE. So that bite of the apple changed their whole lives into living like the bad angel. That is why the bad angel got kicked out of Heaven and tossed to the earth to rule for a certain period of time. The bad angel was the Devil or Satan and Satan's time is almost up.
So whatever you're saying about the effects of the Garden on mankind is what God did not want Adam and Eve to experience. God was having a time just dealing with the fallen angel in heaven and trying to keep peace there. But knowing good and bad made man in the image of God and God never let bad take control of Him. Satan was the weak angel and let bad consume him with jealousy of God's power. Satan wanted to rule the world because he felt he could do a better job than God. God gave him the opportunity to show what he could do. That's why "hell" is right here on earth.
God also gave Adam the opportunity to do as he pleased because Adam felt he did not need God to tell him what to do, that he could do better himself. So God gave him the same opportunity to rule mankind as he saw fit. Now, as you can see, mankind CANNOT rule each other. Look where we are now! That should tell you that we have not and cannot do a fair and equal job in ruling one another.
So as foretold, God will come again and the meek shall inherit the earth to live forever as in Heaven above. This earth, in other words, will be the same as in Heaven. God promised never to destroy the earth again, but He will get rid of all the "bad" entities and Satan himself. There will be no more wars, prejudices, hatefulness, or anything else that is negative. There will be "peace on earth" forever and death will not be an option.
That is my interpretation of Genesis.
babs
posted by
b2008
on November 4, 2007 at 9:49 AM
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Re: FYS
Krisles, I love little stories like this! What a cool example of serendipity--or is it grace? Either way you look at it, so glad you got an answer, in of all places, my blog, where no answers are found!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 26, 2007 at 7:45 PM
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FYS
Finally......I just found the author of my favorite meditation......a line I actually remembered from a T.S. Eliot poem, but knew came from a mystic....and in looking up who in the heck Julian of Norwich was....from your comments......found who I've been quoting all these years!!! I learn more things by following the breadcrumb trails on Blogit!! Peace at last.....
posted by
Krisles
on October 22, 2007 at 3:10 PM
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Re:
Hi KaHae, thanks for reading. I'm very familiar with Julian of Norwich---whose faith focused on the concepts of overcoming sinfulness and evil, and how the path of repentence as a return to that original innocence as you put it (love it) brings forth a renewed, more focused concept of all that is "Good".
Thanks for reading, and glad you're enjoying my work!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 16, 2007 at 5:24 AM
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I guess my assumption is/has been that eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is a metaphor for the journey of human consciousness/perception into duality or polarisation - that prior to this, humans saw everything as One ("God saw His creation and it was good" - or words to that effect.) That returning to the Kingdom requires a return to that original innocence. Rather like - was it Julian of Norwich? One of the Christian mystics anyway, with her vision of the true nature of reality - "That all is well and will be well." (Or again, words to that effect. Sorry, I'm quoting from a very rusty memory.) Anyway, just my two cent's worth.I'm enjoying your blog.
posted by
KaHae
on October 15, 2007 at 7:49 PM
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Re:
Hi Dinka, thanks for reading, and for the apology. No harm done. I look forward to more commentary in the future from you!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 12, 2007 at 6:45 AM
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Oh dear, I see my error. It's the garden and the creation story that you're sceptical about, not God. I see my comment about kuingilia ugali bila kunawa was right! Do forgive me. I do that sometimes - think before i read then write before i think.
Well, both of these are fundamental to my faith, so i suppose our beliefs are just different. Hm, that's an idea for today's entry. Catch you soon!
posted by
Dinka
on October 11, 2007 at 11:08 PM
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Re: Re:
Hi FYS
Oops, posted my reply on my blog instead of yours. Sorry.
In the tree blog you said you don't believe in God ar that He created the world in seven days. Possibly you are a believer, but am not sure what you believe in. Plus you scriptural analyses are pretty scholarly. Kind of like dissecting a frog, and hardly about faith. But do correct me if I'm wrong. Have a good weekend!
posted by
Dinka
on October 11, 2007 at 11:04 PM
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Re:
Good Donkey!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 11, 2007 at 7:49 AM
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Re:
hi Kayzzaman, will do!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 11, 2007 at 7:49 AM
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Re:
Hi Dinka, what makes you think I'm not a believer?
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 11, 2007 at 5:18 AM
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posted by
_dave_says_ack_
on October 11, 2007 at 2:54 AM
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Thumbs Up!
Visit my blog and read my poems.
posted by
Kayzzaman
on October 11, 2007 at 1:01 AM
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Hello FYS
Saw your comment on my blog and thought I'd look you up. Aren't kids adorable? I sometimes wish adults reasoned like kids.
On the issue of the tree, here's the thing. I'm a Christian. Not the best one, but a believing one. the Bible is a spiritual book, and you can't really get it unless you read it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Without that, it's just a book. So since you're not a believer, you can't really get the concepts as they are. And no matter how hard i try to explain it, you won't get it. Coz only the Holy Spitit can make you understand it.
A lot of people think the tree was sex. Why would God give us that choice? Because He's God. He's funny like that, He likes to give us the pros and cons and let us decide for ourselves. That's what makes Him God. Christianity is different from other religions because God doesn't force us to do anything. He just says If you you do this, this will hapeen. So-and-so did this, and these are the results. So now you do what you feel is best. He's just cool like that. That's another spiritual truth. The only way to understand these things is to ask the Holy Spirit.
Holy Spirit reading isn't an exact science either since we all let our own biases cloud our interpretations of scripture. Hence the millions of denominations and cults. So understanding scripture is about genuine Holy Spirit guidance and faith. Why don't I have a religious blog? Coz i'm still working on understanding the Holy Spirit, and spotting him among the millions of voices in my head, so i I keep my interpretations to myself.
And by the way, do ask God, you'd be surprised how honestly He answers genuine questions. Kinda hard to talk to someone when you don't think they exist though...
posted by
Dinka
on October 10, 2007 at 11:04 PM
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Re: FYS
Hi Sheilah, thanks for reading!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 10, 2007 at 5:44 AM
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Re:
hi A-and-B, thanks, and thanks for reading
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 10, 2007 at 5:43 AM
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FYS
interesting perspective! ... but I don't know the answer
posted by
Sheilah
on October 9, 2007 at 5:08 PM
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I like this sort of post.
posted by
A-and-B
on October 9, 2007 at 5:02 PM
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Re:
Hi OTA, thanks for reading!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 6, 2007 at 8:00 AM
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Re: i have a blog taking up the subject of the tree
Hi Xeno-X, thanks for reading! I've heard of that article, and I think I read it-that was a while ago, wasn't it? From what I understand, it looks at the first few chapters of Genesis in comparison to a specific anthropological timeline. If you have access to it, I'd love to read it (again--If I find it before you, I'll send it to you).
Eden was the name of a valley in Mesopotamia. However that doesn't mean "the garden" exists or existed there. Stephen King sets most of his stories in New England. It doesn't mean that there was actually a store named Needful Things, right?
I hope you also noticed that in my article, I also did not make the claim that Adam and Eve were the only people on the planet. I look at the story and see Adam (meaning MAN) and Eve are characters. While someone may or may not believe we all came from a single pair of humans, I think the story of their plight should resonate, making its ideals timeless.
I look forward to reading the piece you've referenced here.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 6, 2007 at 6:53 AM
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FYS,
~Peace, OTA
posted by
Blue_feathers
on October 6, 2007 at 6:46 AM
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Re: FYS
HI richinstore, Thanks for reading!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 6, 2007 at 6:37 AM
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Re:
Hi A-and-B, yes they can be rough. thanks for reading!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 6, 2007 at 6:36 AM
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i have a blog taking up the subject of the tree
THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL
and i have extrapolated on the subject of the source of the garden story -- that there are seeds of actual events from which the story is taken -- humans moving from hunter-gatherer to agrarian. there was an article somewhere that held that the garden was in an enclosed valley that still exists --
you will notice that nowhere is it stated that Adam and Eve were the only people on the planet.
I have delved into that subject in WHAT IF THEY GAVE A CREATION AND NOBODY KNEW
posted by
Xeno-x
on October 6, 2007 at 5:15 AM
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FYS
posted by
richinstore
on October 5, 2007 at 10:47 PM
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You're right. Choices are very tough.
posted by
A-and-B
on October 5, 2007 at 4:30 PM
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Re: Yea I don't have the answer either
Hi Matie---PITY!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 5, 2007 at 4:09 PM
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Yea I don't have the answer either
posted by
Matie
on October 5, 2007 at 2:44 PM
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Re: FYS
Hi Soul, thanks so much for reading. I don't believe that the hazy writing is deliberate. One thing that we tend to forget is that the original writers of the scriptures weren't necessarily writing to us as their audience. Their audience was a culture that lived thousands of years ago with different values, different thought norms, different philosophies, different attitudes, with words and language that were just plain different from ours in many ways. Hebrew numerology, for example, is a study of the meaning of numbers. The characters that made up words often have meanings over and above the whole. Writing and literacy was a very different kind of process.
This is why "sundry pastors" (I absolutely love this phrase, soul! very astute) DO have a field day. They pick up the book, read it based on THEIR understanding of language and word meaning, and through the eyes of their belief structure and knowledge regarding the world in which we live, then try to make assumptions and applications based on this. The book itself must be read in its proper context, and must take into consideration the Tradition of the audience for which it was meant, and THEN apply those things to what we live today.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 5, 2007 at 8:31 AM
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FYS
Nice topic, well handled. That old story in the Garden of Eden is fraught with worrisome ideas. Why could they not write the damn thing in such a way as to keep us from guessing. It is deliberate deception. Why not say.... Adam and Eve were living in God consciousness. The devil came, tempted Eve, and screwed her. She now delighted in sex and showed Adam the thrill. She bore 2 sons, Cain And Abel, for their respective fathers. Cain was the devil's son and he killed his brother. Forbidden Fruits and tree of the knowledge of good and evil are irrelevant. No existing fruit or tree carry such spiritual possibilities. Did they just un-evolve? The hazy writing leaves room for sundry pastors to have a field day!
posted by
Soul_Builder101
on October 5, 2007 at 7:46 AM
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Re: I am really enjoying reading you, FYS!
strat, thanks for reading! I have to say that it feels great to have so many people favorably responding to my work. I also enjoy your work as well. Feel free to agree, disagree, offer insights, all around. It's through discussions and interactions that we can grow and learn.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 5, 2007 at 7:22 AM
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I am really enjoying reading you, FYS!
You do have a very interesting perspective and a terrific sense of logic. You're also a pretty damned fine poet!
posted by
strat
on October 5, 2007 at 7:20 AM
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Re:
AmMused, Thank you for the compliment! What a wonderful thing to say. (I think Blogit had a little burp--I was just commenting and couldn't get the #&%~!!!+=$#%! comment to post. )
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 5, 2007 at 6:16 AM
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Well I guess you needed to hear that twice! LOL
posted by
AmMused
on October 5, 2007 at 5:55 AM
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You have an absolutely delicious mind and a wonderfully fresh approach to life, love and the universe. Cheers.
posted by
AmMused
on October 5, 2007 at 5:54 AM
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You have an absolutely delicious mind and a wonderfully fresh approach to life, love and the universe. Cheers.
posted by
AmMused
on October 5, 2007 at 5:54 AM
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Hi Spinner....yep, or any length of time in between. It makes me think about the 7th day as written in Genesis: Did you ever notice that the sun never sets and rises to mark the end of it?
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on October 4, 2007 at 9:10 PM
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day in hebrew means a period of time a period of time canbe a million years or one hour / spinner
posted by
spinner
on October 4, 2007 at 8:47 PM
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