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ariel70 - the scary part is that so many of these people can say things
like this and actually believe what they say.
Aside from a collective inability to realize how proliferating such incredibly obtuse definitions of people that do not share their beliefs belies the very philosophies that their religion is premised upon, some of these people actually think that they are serving a greater good by doing so. It is nothing more than bigotry in its purest form. If these inconsistencies between proclaiming to be proponents of certain ideals and completely missing the mark in representing those same ideals is not enough, reality should at least illustrate that something is amiss within their collective negative opinions of atheists. But it doesn't seem to work that way. Despite not having anything but religiously derived propaganda to formulate their opinions of the self serving fictional steroetypes that they have constructed as a means of selling religion, they persist anyways.
posted by
gomedome
on August 15, 2007 at 10:53 AM
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Gomedome et al
Especially Battered _Knight!
Atheists, from the Greek Atheos = " without God " Get it?
Atheist does NOT mean someone who believes in nothing. Where did you get the peculiar idea of yours?
And, more to the point, why do you, and almost every other Christian, persist in propagating this fatuous and extremely inaccurate definition of us atheists?
One suspects that there is a simple, and dishonourable and discourteous motive behind this : if one's beliefs are based upon weak and shaky foundations, then simply denigrate those who dissent from them.
Hardly in accord with the teachings, and the alleged compassionate nature, of your Messiah, is it? Or am I missing something here? Does your Bible instruct you to reduce athesists to unthinking, unfeeling brute beast?
If so, I'm glad that I am no longer a Christian.
posted by
ariel70
on August 15, 2007 at 9:18 AM
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Battered_Knight - that last comment is almost acceptable discourse
Until you decided to throw in a few more insults. You should re-read your first comment and tell me honestly if you feel that the elaboration you have made in your last comment pertaining to prayer in the schools is evident. Clearly it is not. Where classroom demographics at the time of the change were in fact heavily weighted in favor of children of Christian religions and it could be said that the change took place to protect the minority, this notion is irrelevant to the underlying premise. The change was made to protect all children from indoctrination into any specific religion. Like that definition or not, forcing children to say specific prayers to a specific version of God is nothing more than indoctrination into one specific religion. It was a change that was long overdue and when the practice existed, it was clearly in violation of both the US constitution and the Canadian Charter of rights and freedoms. Now that the demographics have shifted, to a point where Christian children are no longer the majority in some jurisdictions, the change proved to be a case of good foresight. Typically, proponents of prayer in the schools are only willing to be proponents if it is their prayers that are being forced on all of the other children.
To suggest that a society lacks the resilience to adhere to its values simply because of an insignificant change such as this is not a valid point. There is no one influence that has led to the "perceived" moral decline of society (if you would bother to check I used the word perceived in this post), there are countless factors, societal trends and influences. I used the word perceived because there is also the argument that the changes we have seen in morality may be nothing more than a natural process inherent in the maturation of a capitalist society.
I could go on but to what avail. If you think that I have a bandwagon to jump on you clearly know nothing about me but you did have one thing right, I am defensive. I cannot tolerate popularly held misconception posing as fact. I haven't as yet met one single stereotypical detriment to society atheist as derived from religious propaganda, I am certain at this point in my life that this fictional character does not exist. As a matter of fact all of the atheists I know are the best people I know and this is not just a coincidence either.
Finally, I suggested that you look up the word atheist. The definition of an atheist is a person that does not believe in the existence of God. There are no other adjectives that are applicable, nor are their any other associative philosophies. Your definition as a person that believes in nothing and considering the negative implication of such a definition, is typical of the bigotry inherent within organized religion towards those who aren't buying into their religious constructs.
That type of bigotry you can go sell somewhere else.
posted by
gomedome
on August 15, 2007 at 12:28 AM
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gomedome
You said that I had insulted your intelligence. If you truely were an intelligent sort you would not have missed my point as you did.
You stated that a small percentage could not possibly make such a large impact. My observation of prayer in school is testimony to just the opposite. It was the small percentage that overrode the majority.
I agree with you that removing prayer in school was not a "significant" cause for society's demise, but I do believe that it was a crack that led to the gaping hole we now have.
I will no longer pollute your comment section as yours is not a bandwagon worth jumping onto.
By the way.......for someone that does not calim to be an atheist, you sure are defensive.
posted by
Tattered_Knight
on August 14, 2007 at 11:20 PM
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Battered_Knight - I find your response kind of humorous
I may in fact not know what your religious beliefs are but when you leave two notions that are typical of religious agenda as the sole content of your comment, the assumptions I have made are fair ones. I was trying to be nice to you but at the same time let you know that I won't be agreeing with contentions that are derived from religious propaganda. You can believe whatever you want and as for allowing you to have your opinion, I am happy to. Just don't pollute my comments with such moronic drivel or assume that I will happy to let you do so.
If I come across as a bully, so be it, I've always found it the best practice to club Christians over the head with a big wooden mallet right from the get go so that there are no misunderstandings. Judging by your response, I may not have done it soon enough.
posted by
gomedome
on August 14, 2007 at 11:10 PM
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gomedome
As I stated from the get go, these are my observations. You may not agree and it is clear that you do not, but they are mine and I am entitled to them.
You sir, have no clue as to what my religious agenda is. You are clearly an angry person.
There is no talking with someone like you as you will only accept your views, you are of the mindset that you are right and anyone that disagrees should be slaughtered. I did not launch a personal attack on you or your beliefs.
You come across as a bully. I have handled many bullies before so you are nothing to be afraid of.
I respected what you had to say, I did not call anything that you wrote drivel or shit. You stated your beliefs and that is okay in my book. Believe what you wish and others will do the same. I am not here to side with anyone, nor will I back down from a fight.
Agree with me or not, but allow me to have my opinion. Thank you
posted by
Tattered_Knight
on August 14, 2007 at 10:52 PM
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Battered_Knight - please don't insult my intelligence with such drivel
I don't want to be rude to you as you are new to Blogit and I would rather welcome you but if you think removing prayer from the schools has had any significant influence on the decline of society I feel badly for you. You are simply spewing a religious agenda which I find akin to someone barfing on my shoes. You may also want to look up the word atheist, both of your contentions seem to be derived from religious propaganda.
I'm going to make a suggestion to you, there are a number of religious folks on this site that are on the same page as you are. They will readily agree with the types of things you are saying where I will not. I'm not going to be unkind to you but I am also not going to support anyone's religious delusions nor pander to blatant religious agenda. You may enjoy Blogit more if you stick with commenting on the blogs of people that do agree with your perspectives. Here you will only be met with a viewpoint that you may not be able to handle.
posted by
gomedome
on August 14, 2007 at 10:33 PM
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Talion - that is the really shocking part of these kinds of idiotic
contentions; the number of people that endorse it.
And that is a key element in keeping these nonsensical ideas alive. The super hero assembles what he thinks is irrefutable logic despite the porosity and shallowness of his arguments. A gallery of not so discerning people who happen to share the same religious beliefs, chime in with an endorsement that adds validity to a notion that is invalid. I find it very difficult to view these people the same afterwards, especially when they endorse an idea that demonstrates their sense of propriety limitations. The unfortunate result of these folks wallowing in their own righteous self approval is that the super hero's ego gets puffed up even more. Now he's off to fight common sense, freedom of speech and a person's right to religious freedom wherever he may find it.
posted by
gomedome
on August 14, 2007 at 10:20 PM
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gomedome
First word should have been INTERESTING
posted by
Tattered_Knight
on August 14, 2007 at 10:02 PM
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gomedome
Inetesting. I am not here to argue or to drive home my personal beliefs as I feel that we are all entitled to our own.
I would like to make a couple of personal observations: You speak of the decline of society. This society began to go down hill when they removed prayer from school, the majority was voted out by a small percentage.
Second, an atheist (which I understand you do not claim to be) is a non-believer. Not just a non-believer in God, they just don't believe, period. So, being a true atheist is a contradiction.
posted by
Tattered_Knight
on August 14, 2007 at 10:01 PM
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gomedome
I've tried to understand it and failed. I've tried challenging it, but alas, that failed too. I've decided to go back to the tried and true: ignoring it. As long as I'm not addressed individually, I'm leaving it alone. Such things are interesting to read however, especially the comments when others are so quick with praise and agreement. I like knowing what what kinds of people I'm dealing with.
posted by
Talion
on August 14, 2007 at 9:39 PM
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cantey_1975 - that's the way it always goes - every group has a few people
that most of the others in the group, wish would join another group.
posted by
gomedome
on August 14, 2007 at 7:30 PM
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The final stark reality is; if the contents of a blog on a small and obscure blogging site can shake your religious faith to any degree, you do not really have faith.
Its these people unfortuantly that are the most vocal and aggressive.
posted by
calmcantey75
on August 14, 2007 at 5:43 PM
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Xeno-x - yet there are still far too many people that insist that a belief
in their God is the only hope we have.
I just cannot imagine what goes on in the heads of some of these people (if anything). You will trip across some of the comments and posts I am referring to. It really is just the same old arguments thrown up by the same old bigoted people. Those who don't recognize that their obsession with proving their unfounded prejudices against all people they brand as atheists is nothing more than the manifestation of their inability to think. If the world is in such bad shape, how can it be that a very small minority has brought us to this point? "Ignore" is the key word, they are guilty of ignoring their own shortcomings, the failures of the philosophies they advance and therefore ignoring reality at the same time.
posted by
gomedome
on August 14, 2007 at 12:29 PM
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odd - Christians have ruled Europe for 1,500 yrs, and U.S. for 300
and this period has been a period of some of the greatest and most constant war -- and moral lapses galore.
how conveniently they ignore their own history.
posted by
Xeno-x
on August 14, 2007 at 12:07 PM
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