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Soterios - I don't know where to start
All life excepting concepts of the divine, must renew itself, our destinies can only be self determined in a corporeal sense. Science will never have all of the answers but the trajectory of exponentially increasing knowledge has been established. All of the things you mention such as pollution, overpopulation etc. we now have the capability as a species to change, the only things lacking are the collective will and mindset.
Finally, do you really think that our modern day politicians invented greed, arrogance and corruption in the political arena? Et tu, Brute? . . comes to mind immediately.
posted by
gomedome
on June 20, 2007 at 6:45 AM
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Re: Soterios - your comment is hardly a response to anything I have express
If we are the masters of our own destiny than why are we not yet able to evade death?
Maybe we are not the masters we like to think we are.
How is it that our science is still unable to explain the cause of many things, especially disease.
Also why have we chosen to destroy the very earth with houses us. Where is the wisdom in that?
If this is our destiny then it's a pretty crap one.
Fished-out oceans, shrinking rivers and glaciers, pollution, overpopulation etc etc.
You talk about those men of old who might be considered ill-educated and ignorant today, but when I look at today's politicians and leaders I don't see wisdom, just greed and arrogance.
posted by
Soterios
on June 20, 2007 at 1:28 AM
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Soterios - your comment is hardly a response to anything I have expressed
When you say: "Perhaps intelligent, rational men all through history, who were prepared to be persecuted, tortured and murdered for a lie, were simply all delusional."
A statement such as this is irrelevent to today. If you are referring to the martyrs of history from a few centuries ago, they would not be considered "...intelligent, rational men..." If they lived today they would be ill educated and ignorant by today's standards. I'm not really sure what you are getting at with the rest of your comment, the growing levels of violence depression and suicide ironically can in many cases identify religious belief as the root cause. We don't have to put up with anything other than that which we are willing to endure in terms of how we live our lives and influence the the societies we live in, we are capable of changing everything about our existence in any manner we please but not if we continue to insist that the answers lie in ever redundant religious dogma. We are the masters of our own detinies, not some non existent invisible beings that have been defined for us by primitive men who had no better than a grade 4 education equivalency.
posted by
gomedome
on June 19, 2007 at 12:13 PM
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All an illusion
Perhaps we have been talking to ourselves for far too long and it's time face our own stupidity.
Perhaps intelligent, rational men all through history, who were prepared to be persecuted, tortured and murdered for a lie, were simply all delusional.
Perhaps there is nothing wrong with the world and we are just imagining that the growing levels of violence, depression and suicide are insignificant.
Perhaps we do not face the consequences of wrong chioces and actions.
Perhaps this is just our lot and we have to put up with it.
Perhaps
posted by
Soterios
on June 19, 2007 at 11:30 AM
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Soterios - I can buy some of what you are saying
When you say: "
A spirit is a formless, non-localized, intelligent energy field existing in a higher vibrational dimension" . . . remove the word "intelligent" and I'm with you on this one. I just cannot accept that what is commonly referred to as the spiritual realm is conscious or anything other than chemical, electronic and energy pulses. Considering that we only have our human reactions to this realm as our sole resource to define it and that communication is entirely one way (from us to them); to suggest that we have as a species been collectively talking to ourselves as we experience nothing more than natural stimula is not an entirely unreasonable position.
posted by
gomedome
on June 18, 2007 at 6:57 AM
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Spirit and Truth
Worshipping God is spirit worship.
What is a spirit?
A spirit is a formless, non-localized, intelligent energy field existing in a higher vibrational dimension.
How can we tell if he is around us?
Actually there is a way of detecting his presence.
posted by
Soterios
on June 18, 2007 at 6:22 AM
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Tonyzonit - 'Fundamental atheist' - that's another good example
It is not the atheists that are attempting to have entire societies collectively dumb it down to reconcile ancient and redundant religious manuscripts with reality. Thad' be your common garden variety religious fundamentalists but we can always count on one thing form those people . . . they will provide us with comedy when they tell us how the mind of the non believer works.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2007 at 6:22 PM
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saul_relative - thank you, I think the real surprising thing when these
types of catch phrases are popularized, is how many people repeat them without thinking.
They agree but have no idea what they are agreeing to.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2007 at 6:16 PM
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kooka_lives - I only read the headline but it had little effect on my post
as I scribbled this down last evening.
I have no idea if I'm responding to the aforementioned post, I don't really care if I am. Nor am I speaking about anyone specifically in this post other than if their is someone out their that thinks they are making some kind of valid point when suggesting that non believers worship nothing . . . they are a friggin idiot. But we already know that about some people.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2007 at 4:44 PM
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You read oddy's post then?
Damn you. I just read that junk and was going to write my own post on it. Still will, but it just bugs me that you got to it first.
I may be a little lazy and use the definitions you give here if I need them to make a point.
posted by
kooka_lives
on June 15, 2007 at 2:46 PM
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Hi Gome - agreed - good summary of the ignorance of believers of their own
ridiculousness when they condemn others and falsify reality with these silly catchphrases. 'Fundamental atheist' is another one that seems to be doing the rounds at the momnet - as if atheists are blowing believers or people at random people up in suicide attacks!
posted by
Antonionioni
on June 15, 2007 at 1:39 PM
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Point on, my friend. Nothing like the nothingness between the
ears of those who worship nothing(ness). How demonstrably more moronic can one get?
posted by
saul_relative
on June 15, 2007 at 1:22 PM
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Ok.. Im following you now
In my believer mind I think it is possible to worship "'Nothing".. nothing being nothing of man.. nothing that corrupts his unity with God. To give up worldly cares and concerns, to stop clinging to fears and justifications. So even if I worship nothing I am still worshiping something.. God. You have made your point well.. I was just too blind to see it. Thank you
~Peace
posted by
Blue_feathers
on June 15, 2007 at 12:47 PM
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OTA. - the point is that it is impossible to worship nothing
At least in the same sense as diety worship. As you say: " . . .everyone who walks the planet follows something." But following a path, or being compelled or guided by certain ideals is not necessarily the same thing as worshipping something. In the strictest sense worship is the preserve of those who believe in paying homage to a higher power or entity of some sort. It is not necessary to live a happy and productive life, there is just as strong an argument to suggest that not worshipping anything is a far better way to exist.
posted by
gomedome
on June 15, 2007 at 12:31 PM
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To worship "nothingness" in my mind is the ultimate sadness. If you follow nothing.. nothing at all.. What is leading you.. Were are you going? If you leave God out of the equation entirely, everyone who walks the planet follows something. Perhaps it might be the ideals / dreams set out for them by someone else or tenants they call their own. I don't think anyone truly follows nothingness constantly unless they are denying their own need for a passionate existence. Since our days are numbered, why not be doing something you are passionate about.. something you love? Why worship nothing when you can always worship your own passions and live happy. Interesting post sir.
~Peace
posted by
Blue_feathers
on June 15, 2007 at 11:38 AM
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