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I think Franklin may have said it this way, Gome...
You can fool some of the people all the time, and all the people some of the time...and them ain't bad odds!
posted by
arGee
on April 26, 2007 at 8:08 AM
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Yes, Gome, I completely agree.
posted by
Antonionioni
on April 25, 2007 at 6:41 AM
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Tonyzonit - This case, when examined in hindsight had a few glaring caution
flags.
As I mention in this post, the entire event was chronicled by 3 children 10 years of age and under. The story grew out of control because of the propensity of those surrounding the children to want to believe. It is likely that the children saw something as this would explain the one surviving child adhering to the story until her death but there was still something amiss with the survivor. The event defined her. She spent her entire life as the central figure of the story and was in constant dialogue with church officials, having numerous audiences with different popes to discuss the "secrets" entrusted to her by the Virgin Mary. There is also no doubt that she was an attention freak, her supposed development of para stigmata later in life bearing testament to this. When she finally revealed the third secret which was the assasination attempt on pope John Paul II (revealed after the fact I might add) the church should have said "okay, the scam's over now". Instead they did nothing, leaving the notion of the area surrounding Fatima being sacred ground.
Where this is relevant to your comment; countless people throughout the ages have claimed to communicate with God in one way or another. People relating a story of communicating with God are hardly ever given the careful and suspicious scrutiny that they should receive. The desire of those who believe these things for it all to be true sometimes overwhelms rudimentary discriminitve cognition. What are the chances of the same one in a multi-million "seer" of a Virgin Mary apparition also being a one in a multi-million stigmatic? For a catholic that would be like winning a lottery grand prize twice. There are reasons why these types of things only happen amongst the poorly educated. Mankind's overwhelming desire for there to be a God can convince the human mind of anything.
posted by
gomedome
on April 24, 2007 at 8:58 AM
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Gome - I do think you raise a good point here.
Many people claim to 'know' God and to have communicated with him (well the Bible describes God as male). While I cannot of course doubt the sincerity of their belief, I still doubt the facts in such cases. Why - because of the complete lack of corroborative proof. In the Bible, God communicates directly to various people. The idea conveyed is that the voice is actually audible, although that might not be the case. In any case, the Jews do not claim any direct communication from God since the last of the prophets, some time before Jesus. Similarly, Muslims say that Allah has not communicated since the time of Mohammed (I think - not an expert - apologies if not correct). Christians, on the other hand, regularly claim direct communication with God. This tends to be the Protestant end of the spectrum, the branch that specialised in removing the middleman, as it were. Fine so far. But when has anyone else ever heard this communication? Has God's voice ever actually been audible in the room, coming down through the ceiling, echoing around the room, audible to people nearby, in the next room, or passing by on the street outside? Aside from the point you make as to why God doesn't seem to communicate on the big issues with the people who can do the most about those issues, only, seemingly with ordinary people, on issues such as allowing their grandmother to live another 5 years. But of course, just as we can't prove God has actually talked to these people, neither can we disprove it. So, as ever, an agnostic position is the best course where there is no proof whatever of something, but no possible proof against, either.
posted by
Antonionioni
on April 24, 2007 at 7:00 AM
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