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Soterios - what the hell are you talking about?
I did not suggest that: " . . .(I) think people hide it away because they are ashamed" nor did I: ". . . claim that it is ok because no one is hurt" . . . I made neither of these suggestions and only feel the latter is true to a certain extent. A consideration that must be balanced against social responsibility by members of a free society. You are welcome to refute anything that I post but it is sort of a prerequisite when doing to so to stick to things that I have actually said . . . don't put words in my mouth.
As for your example of online fraud, you may want to rethink that one. It is a very poor analogy as someone obviously does get hurt if they are scammed out of "....some big number...."
Finally, your closing line doesn't make a lot of sense considering that I posted this a day before your post on the subject.
posted by
gomedome
on April 17, 2007 at 6:16 AM
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The painful truth
It is an interesting thing that you think people hide it away because they are ashamed.
Why be ashamed when you perceive no wrong in it. If you think it's so acceptable then why not just whip our you wank-mag on the bus or at the office and gloat. Instead, your actions would risk public scrutiny which let's face it could give you a bad name.
You claim that it is ok because no one is hurt. Well if I commit a carefully executed fraud, then hey it's done online and geez no loss of life or bloodshed. Just some big number that the bank can reproduce by re-lending. The point is (scripture or no scripture) a wrong is a wrong and you know it. We all know the right way and the wrong way.
Perhaps the truth hit a raw spot, since you seem to be rather irate by my posting.
posted by
Soterios
on April 17, 2007 at 12:24 AM
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arGee - I agree with what you are saying but there is a difference between
a pshycological addiction and a physical addiction.
In any case, I have a real problem with those who deflect responsibility from themselves. Even if the individual is a person that is genetically and environmentally predisposed to physical alcohol dependancy and needs all the help they can get to sober up, it is ultimately their will that will determine their success at doing so.
posted by
gomedome
on April 11, 2007 at 1:59 PM
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As an indirect comment about addiction in general, Gome...
Even the alcoholic has to pick up the glass and drink the whatever in order to become drunk. By any reckoning I know, that act is voluntary. Saying NO may be difficult, but control still rests with the individual – always (unless someone has you tied up with a funnel in your mouth, and pours the alcohol into you without your consent).
Ditto for every other addiction!
posted by
arGee
on April 11, 2007 at 1:20 PM
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ladychardonnay
A lot of porn is boring and lacks any real sense of thought going into it. But there are some that are really entertaining as well. Everyone should see 'The Opening of Misty Beethoven'. That is one that has an entertainment value beyond just the sex itself.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 11, 2007 at 7:36 AM
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Soterios
People look at it at 2 in the morning in darkness because they are told how 'evil' it is by those who wish to control them. They hide it because they are ashamed, but for all the wrong reasons. When I do look at porn, I only try to hide it from my two boys, since they are just too young. My wife on the other hand, I am very open with about it. I have friends who are open about looking at it. None of us are ashamed that we do it, because we refuse to allow one group's artificial moral values to dominate our lives.
Pornography can be very spiritual stimulating and actually uplifting. I personally find the naked female form to be one that helps me feel better, and not in just a sexual manner. The beauty that is the nude and that is sex when looked at in the right manner can make a person feel very good about life and help them to build up a strong spiritual bond with humanity.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 11, 2007 at 7:33 AM
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This has something to do with the population, doesn't it.
posted by
Jenasis
on April 11, 2007 at 6:51 AM
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ladychardonnay - same here
posted by
gomedome
on April 11, 2007 at 6:45 AM
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i think pornography is boring
posted by
ladychardonnay
on April 11, 2007 at 6:39 AM
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Soterios - this is a comment that should have been a post
Where I don't mind at all when someone leaves a long comment, I have a bit of trouble with some of the points you have made. You speak of the spiritual realm in absolute terms when I happen to believe that it does not exist. Demonic forces that attack people at night while they are dreaming? You really are speaking this stuff to the wrong person. Where I can agree that pornography, or anything that stimulates us in any manner including most forms of entertainment, can have a blunting effect on us, compelling us to search for greater stimulation, I cannot agree that this foible of human nature is somehow connected to supposed "spiritual laws".
The morality that you imply is being breached in the examples you use also assumes that someone is being victimized by a person watching pornography. This assumption, though it can be quite often valid, is not absolute, there are just as many instances where pornography is enjoyed by couples and used as a means of stimulating or rekindling a sexual relationship. Are these instances considered a sin simply because someone else of differing religious views feels that they are? As I mentioned in this post, the will of the individual is the single most important aspect in dealing with pshycological addictions. Where I have stated also in this post that I do not understand how burying one's head in a bible can overcome what is nothing more than an individual's weakness, I must also concede that whatever it takes, or whatever works for a person that feels they must modify their behaviour, is ultimately the right thing to do . . . for them.
posted by
gomedome
on April 11, 2007 at 6:38 AM
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The problem with porn
The problem with these "sins" is that there is no direct, immediate perceivable repurcussion from them. The illness, disease and death sets in insideously and over a period of time, is never linked to these sins, but is the result of a progressive darkening of the spirit over time.
Most people expect to feel an immedite consequence of their sinning in some way.
While some have highly developed consciences, others have consciences that have been "seared" by prior negative activites and so are unable to feel anything. The conscience is literally blunted, instead of being acutely developed. Becasue they don't feel, they attribute this lack of feeling to a perceived invulnerability. (Hey I don't feel bad, so why not do it again.)
What they ought to be asking themselves, is this. Is this the right thing to do, or the wrong thing? If it is the right thing to do, then why am i sitting at my desk at two in the morning getting my fix, while my loving wife is asleep. Why do I not feel about what I am doing? How would I feel if she was doing this? The point is that porn can become an addiction like any other. It develops into a stronghold, which is an entrenched area of sinning and the person keeps justify it as being ok. Eventually the person is convinced that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing and will have completely convinced himself in his mind that this behavior is acceptable. Some are commiting greater wrongs because of a blunted moral compass.
A seared conscience always tries to justify a wrong action, by making appeals to the person doing the wrong thing that it is perfectly ok. Reading scripture is supposed to un-blunted the conscience and lead to repentance, which is simply re-thinking what you are doing (re-pensar).
The reality, is that we live in a universe governed by physical laws as well as spiritual ones.
The consequence of not complying to a physical law is physical pain. Just try running off a cliff and you will suddenly develop acute awareness of the laws of gravity. Bruises and broken bones are a painful reminder that we are goverened by this law.
Non-complience with spiritual laws have been put in place to protect us also, although becasue we fail to perceive the effect on non-complience on our spirits, we fail to obey these laws. These are the laws which govern our very essence...the parts of us which linger on long after our earthly bodies have decomposed.
A seminal work on hypnotherapy, written by US psychiatrist Shakuntala Modi, uncovers demonic forces whcih operate undercover, at night, while the person is asleep. The principal weapon of attack is through the use of a dream which serves to ensnare the spirit of the dreamer. Becasue the dreamer is oblivious to the dangers and many times unconcious due to the influence of drugs and alcohol, the spiritual attack goes unnoticed and therefore it is assumed that there is no repurcussion from the negative behaviour.
She goes further to say that any addiction or repetative negative behavior, causes the spirit to remain earthbound after physical death. The reason for this, is true ignorance of the reality lurking beyond what our eyes are able to perceive. There is no judgement which sends people to hell. Rather, there is an evil so malevolent that it "takes" souls there, whether they want to go or not. The earthbound spirits remain locked in an existance which involves following the living while at the same time participating in the same sins as before, except in the spiritual realm. If they have a pornography addiction they will spend their time pursuing humans with a similiar addiction, in oder to derive the same feelings.
The biggest problem with not being able to return to the light after death, is that it leads to a retardation of spiritual progress. The soul is supposed to ascend directly after death and then be planning the next life in the light. This "earthbound" or fallen state makes it very much more likely that the darkened souls remain trapped, or decend further. Returning to the light means that all the individual's negative behavior is exposed by the light, since no secrets exist in heaven.
I wish i could tell people that it is ok and that there is no hell, but my very real NDE changed my views on that forever.
posted by
Soterios
on April 11, 2007 at 2:29 AM
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kooka_lives - I look forward to it
posted by
gomedome
on April 10, 2007 at 8:07 PM
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those links have inspired me
They talk about self-hating one's self, but seem to not understand that the self-hating comes because they are being told by the church what they are doing is wrong and evil. I look at porn every so often and I don't hate myself for it. So I'm gonna snag that second link there for a post and talk about the stupidity of it all myself.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 10, 2007 at 7:54 PM
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kooka_lives - that's the part I don't get, how someone can lose control
over one of life's simple pleasures.
The Christian world is building an industry on "curing" people from pornography addiction. There are centers set up that are much like detox centers where those afflicted are secluded for 6 months while they are bombarded with the bible. There is even one guy who has developed a tattletale computer software program that will email a person of your choosing if you log onto a porn site.
The questions that I am compelled to ask are: What friggin planet are these people from? Are there people in this world that are so incredibly weak minded and weak willed? So weak minded that they get sucked in by profiteering hucksters waving the banner of their religion and so weak willed that they let this happen to themselves? I have to agree that moral condemnation (and copious amounts of shame and guilt) play a major role in selling what should be nothing more than a temporary infatuation as an "addiction".
posted by
gomedome
on April 10, 2007 at 7:35 PM
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Why?
What's wrong with a pornography addiction? I guess if it gets in the way of a real love life, that might be a problem. That sounds to me like one of those B.S. addictions that are more a moral issue than a real problem. Most people I know enjoy porn to varying degrees and I would bet that there are those who would call them 'addicted'. But none of them have had issue where it actually screws up their real lives. I know I like looking at naked women and my wife knows about it and has no problem with it.
But people can get just as addicted to reading books or model railroads or such, that can be much more expensive because they are not viewed as morally negative things and one can also become addicted to taking walks and such, things that seem to be good for you but can to some degree equally take way from your life. To pick on porn as something bad to be addicted to is rather silly really.
All things in moderations is the real way to go about it.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 10, 2007 at 3:28 PM
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