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Tonyzonit - that Rapture Ready web site really is something

It could be laughed off as a joke if it were a handful of crazies but unfortunately it is a fairly large community. I can't help but think that the unhealthy message that this nonsense promotes has to be detrimental to the imbalanced amongst that community. It is re-affirmation and the subtle encouragement of depression and hopelessness.

posted by gomedome on March 21, 2007 at 6:31 PM | link to this | reply

Just had a look at the Rapture Ready site.

I have to confess I ain't ready. I love the Guys only thread, for discussing tools, cars and that kind of guys' stuff, and the Women's Issues thread - presumably about which rolling pin to buy in between gossiping over the fence. But then, what's the point? None of it matters - how can you care about cars or tools if the whoile bloody world is about to be blown sky high? I wouldn't bother spending my hard-earned dough on tools if that were the case.

posted by Antonionioni on March 21, 2007 at 2:39 PM | link to this | reply

Stop reading my mind

posted by kooka_lives on March 20, 2007 at 7:30 PM | link to this | reply

Tonyzonit - I came across this online somewhere, I've also seen it as a

bumper sticker.

I have to agree that members of a religion that has within it an earth doomsday scenario, where they are the select few to live eternally in bliss, are running a con. Unfortunately for them the con is primarly on themselves as most people that are capable of thinking their way out of the proverbial wet paper bag see the end times nonsense for exactly what it is. It is no more than our generation's stupid people doing what the stupid people of all preceding generations have done; specifically convincing themselves that the problems the world faces today are so insurmountable that to them it signifies we are in pre-tribulation times. They scurry to their little black books to find obscure passages that somehow prove it, if only to themselves and then use this "proof" as a lame ass excuse to drop out of life as they await the rapture. Not only do these retards have the utter gaul to condemn the rest of us as they convince themselves of their deluded fantasy, they are ultimately pulling in the opposite direction of those who are attempting to solve today's problems.

Here is a really scary web site.

posted by gomedome on March 20, 2007 at 5:43 PM | link to this | reply

I am amazed that some Christians - not all, but some - can claim

that Christianity makes us care more for the world, when they are hoping and praying for the END of the world to come as soon as possible, hopefully in their lifetimes! As you say, they are looking forward to an afterlife, but they also genuinely want the world to end and for NO future generations to be born. I find that horrific, although they believe it presumably because of certain 'quotations' by Jesus and in Revelation and possibly elsewhere, so they are led by these, rather than being deliberately malicious. Nevertheless, it is a horrifically selfish thought, similar to the belief that they will be in eternal paradise, while non-believers will fry eternally in hell- because the book says so, so it must be true. So you must believe, unless you WANT to burn in hell. Simple con trick, lapped up by the gullible.

posted by Antonionioni on March 20, 2007 at 4:27 PM | link to this | reply

sannhet - I've mentioned before that quite often the differences in what

people believe is nothing more than differing definitions.

Where I am not able to agree that the "seed" you refer to is divinely instilled, there is no arguing that something that could be described as a seed exists. There is some type of commonality or collective consciousness that makes us human. I tend to lean more towards biophysical explanations coupled with subtle sensory influences, as a means of understanding how we instinctively know some of the things we do.  

posted by gomedome on March 20, 2007 at 1:30 PM | link to this | reply

Gome -

Liked your post. I believe there is in each of us a seed of what is right. If we are honest with ourselves, we know this and follow this "rightness". Now, I also believe that this seed is a part of the Divine, but I can certainly see how one may not believe this - but still be a moral, good person.

posted by sannhet on March 20, 2007 at 11:44 AM | link to this | reply

posted by Blue_feathers on March 20, 2007 at 8:35 AM | link to this | reply

Pat_B - I could not have said it better myself

Fear of eternal punishment played well to ancient and decidedly primitive audiences but as you say; it does have its limitations in being an effective motivator compelling the individual to do the right things in life. There are means of instilling values within people other than inventing imaginary beings that will unleash their wrath upon them. I get tired of listening to the vilification of the non believer by those who profess belief in a supreme being. It is the ultimate deflection of personal responsibility. To manufacture character deficencies in others as a means of elevating one's personal religious philosophies above all others; amounts to nothing more than playing the blame game. ....with all fingers pointed outwards. 

posted by gomedome on March 20, 2007 at 8:21 AM | link to this | reply

SuccessWarrior - after the inherent character traits of the individual,

social economic factors would have to be the single biggest determinent of criminal activity.  

To suggest that a belief in God somehow overcomes those inherent character traits ignores reality. It is a notion that is part and parcle with the effective sell job that religion proliferates. There are people in this world that actually believe that those who do not believe in God cannot have a moral center. The reality that they choose to ignore is that because the majority of people in society believe in God, the majority of people that are criminals or are of lesser character also believe in God. There is no over representation on a percentage basis of non believers amongst criminals or those of lesser character. People are people, most are good, some are bad and it seems that religious beliefs does very little to overcome the shortcomings that make some people bad. Despite these realities, the sell job is complete, the non believer is vilified as a detriment to society when the answer truly lies in the mirror.   

 

posted by gomedome on March 20, 2007 at 8:03 AM | link to this | reply

I'm not sure I'm an athiest, more likely a hopeful agnostic...

When Christians equate athiests with evil, I'm mildly surprised. Since I often think it's possible this life is it, it's a one-shot deal, it just naturally follows that we should treat it as precious, rare and valuable. It's a miserable, rough go for all, horrible for some. Life itself has a steep learning curve, we all make mistakes along the way. It seems wasteful to spend our limited time in hostility or bitterness. Life is precious and rare. In most cases, to take or worsen someone's life out of spite or revenge is the ultimate wrong. That's just common sense. We don't need a "thou shalt not" to get that.

It doesn't matter if there's a judgment day coming, or if there's an all-seeing eye keeping track of our actions and motives. Fear is a strong motivator, but I think joy-seeking is a better one. Being good "only" because one fears punishment, whether it's mama's willow switch or the idea of finding ourselves on a turning spit in the fires of hell, has its limitations. I believe the here and now is to be cherished and in some cases overcome, and working toward joy in the here and now, finding something to be happy about is its own reward. 

posted by Pat_B on March 20, 2007 at 7:46 AM | link to this | reply

Since Christianity is on the decline,

does that mean that all these people are going to turn "bad"?

To me, it's a very egocentric question.  This person can't imagine living without an invisible friend and can't imagine how anyone else could either.

People are people.  Regardless of race or belief. 

When I was a cop, people would ask what kind of people I arrested or cited the most.  The answer, "White Mormons."  Shocking to some but when you figure that the population was probably composed of 70% white Mormons, it makes sense that about 70% of the people I dealt with as a cop were white Mormons. 

People always want to point the finger at another race or another belief system and just don't seem to understand that in any cross section of people, you are going to find the same mix of good and bad.

posted by SuccessWarrior on March 20, 2007 at 7:26 AM | link to this | reply

proc - not being able to prove or disprove the existence of God should be

the thinking person's first concession to themselves.

None of us know anything in reality, I feel bad for those who insist that they do know more than the rest of us and particularly bad for those who can "prove" or "disprove" the existence of God. Faith in what one believes is nothing more than an instinctive gut feeling that works for the individual and may not work for the next person.

posted by gomedome on March 20, 2007 at 6:29 AM | link to this | reply

Ciel - at the very least, organized religion cannot claim a monopoly on

influencing people to have good morals, integrity and decency.

Though most religions sell themselves as the sole claimants to instilling these human qualities.  

 

posted by gomedome on March 20, 2007 at 6:24 AM | link to this | reply

Kripayne - we will look forward to posts by you on this subject

posted by gomedome on March 20, 2007 at 6:21 AM | link to this | reply

TVBlogger - that is very well said and along the lines of what I was

planning to add to this post when I finish it.

The ten commandments or any supposedly divinely decreed rules or guidelines that have evolved into the basis of our societal laws are in effect nothing more than common sense. They are self preservation laws integral to a society sustaining itself, universally applicable and it is a safe bet that if it was not mankind's nature to invent gods and the words that these gods decreed, these same rules would have been formulated anyways, in another manner.

posted by gomedome on March 20, 2007 at 6:19 AM | link to this | reply

I read an interesting post today that carried the statement that

jut as it cant be proved God exists it also can't be proved He doesn't.Interesting post I thought..

posted by proc on March 20, 2007 at 1:05 AM | link to this | reply

Glad to see this notion advanced: that having a sense of morality

and propriety are really nothing to do with being brought up good and proper in the bosom of a religion. 

 

posted by Ciel on March 20, 2007 at 12:49 AM | link to this | reply

I wouldn't phrase it quite

as gomedome did, but I have a tendency to agree. I will coalesce my own thoughts on it and see what I come up with. I hadn't read Faithercise's blog before but will swing in for a look see.

posted by Kripayne on March 19, 2007 at 11:00 PM | link to this | reply

I believe that most religions take their morals and ethics from universal human truths not from God's mouth.  Then they codify them (add a whole bunch more rules) and demand we abide by what we all knew we should be doing anyway.  "Do unto others" can be found in almost all religions precisely because it's a universal human truth.  It's not surprising to me at all that people can treat others well, be selfless, or protect the environment without a belief in a God.  Growing up, Christians were really not concerned with the environment at all.  We were taught that we were given dominion.  We could do no wrong, because God would always provide and take care of our needs.  It isn't until lately that the focus seems to have shifted from the passage of dominion and to the passage of being caretakers.  Even that attempt to refocus has caused a rift within the evangelical movement.  Anyway, I do wonder about those who can't behave without a judgemental parent-figure standing over them.

posted by TVBlogger on March 19, 2007 at 10:00 PM | link to this | reply