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my gosh you could write apologetics
posted by
Xeno-x
on March 20, 2007 at 9:12 AM
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Xeno-x - the answer to that question is fairly easy
The Roman Catholic church believes that there is one guardian angel for all human beings, therefore a census of a human population would provide a number to work with. This also solidifies my point that the number is an anachronism. Census taking prior to the 20th century has always been a crude and inexact undertaking, in the middle centuries when this number was created and supposedly verified, the new world had not yet been discovered. It would be the same as saying that the earth is 2,191,506 days old. A number arrived at by multiplying the supposed 6,000 year timeline as found in the bible by 365.25 days, then adding 6 days for creation. Fable is supported by mythology by using simplistic derivitive extrapolation but no matter how it is approached, nothing changes the fact that they are merely fables relying on mythology (or vice versa) for validity.
posted by
gomedome
on March 18, 2007 at 12:36 PM
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how was that number arrived at?
posted by
Xeno-x
on March 18, 2007 at 7:16 AM
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saul_relative - there is definitely something to what you suggest
There is a very strong and common link between the origins of the myth of vampires and religious beliefs. It is no coincedence that holy water, crosses or other traditional religious symbols are repellent to vampires. This is a good site
HERE which explains some of this.
posted by
gomedome
on March 17, 2007 at 3:28 PM
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Hey, guys, what about death by exposure to sunlight? I don't know where
this one originated, but I think it's symbolically connotative. Shedding light on ignorance can make it go away. Would that that were true when it comes to heaven and hell myths. Speaking of which, Stephen Brust treated this subject (the war of the angels) with a sense of humor in
To Reign In Hell. Check it out.
posted by
saul_relative
on March 17, 2007 at 10:28 AM
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Just poking fun,
though can't think of many movies where vampires are knocked off with silver bullets. I'm sure they exist, though. Just brought to mind that movie from '79. Wasn't very good, but kinda funny in parts. Mostly a romantic comedy. Here was the exchange:
[Rosenberg approaches Dracula in a restaurant]
Doctor Rosenberg: The second way to kill a vampire, Count--three silver bullets through the heart!
Cindy Soundheim: Jeffrey!
[Rosenberg shoots Dracula three times]
Dracula: No, Rosenberg, that is a werewolf.
Doctor Jeff Rosenberg: A werewolf? Really? Are you sure?
[Guards come and start to take Rosenberg away]
Doctor Jeff Rosenberg: No harm done! The man's all right! This was for a werewolf! No problem! Calm down! Take it easy! I'm a doctor!
posted by
Kripayne
on March 17, 2007 at 1:51 AM
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Kripayne - silver bullets that have been blessed by a priest and fired
through the heart of a vampire is an idea depicted in a number of hollywood movies.
I never saw "Love at First Bite" but have seen the 1998 film "Vampires" with James Woods and the more recent "Van Helsing" of 2004. Keep in mind that all of this stuff is constantly evolving folklore, vampires sell much better than werewolves in the movies. It wouldn't surprise me if the idea of a blessed silver bullet killing a vampire was borrowed from the less popular werewolf folklore.
posted by
gomedome
on March 16, 2007 at 8:37 PM
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LoL & Holy Cow
All that talk about killing vampires--well, depends on where you're coming from. Can be stake through the heart (Albania), burial at crossroads (Bohemia), boil head in vinegar (Crete), piling stones on the grave (Ireland), putting poppy seeds in the grave (Prussia), cut off toes and drive nail through neck (Serbia)....etc etc etc. No silver bullets though. That would be for werewolves, my friend. Didn't you ever see the movie "Love at First Bite"??
posted by
Kripayne
on March 16, 2007 at 8:17 PM
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Troosha -I think there are many reasons why myths are clung to and defended
in the manner that this one is.
Ascribing the inexplicable to a supernatural being, as you allude to in your comment, has been a human practice since we have walked erect. There is also the consideration that many of these fables are so interwoven within specific religious doctrines that to question them is to question the doctrines themselves. Then we must consider human nature pertaining to religious belief in general; Where not one of us would uphold a belief in anything that is implausible or unbelievable in any other arena of discussion without adequate proof, religious beliefs are quite a different matter. What is "true" or considered as an enternal truth, is not subjected to the same type of scrutiny by many people, as all other aspects of our lives. Consensus and the reaffirmation of others are enough for some people to continue proliferating fables as fact.
posted by
gomedome
on March 16, 2007 at 12:07 PM
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Myths are stories about divine or heroic beings, passed down over the ages and are linked to spiritual or religious life. When the myths cease to be closely upheld by rulers or priests or spiritual leaders they take on the quality of folklore or fairy tales. When this link be broken, they lose their mythological qualities and become folklore or fair tales.
It’s unfortunate that so many people cling to the myths which are so often intended to explain universal beginnings. Perhaps they do so because natural phenomena are inexplicable. If no other simple or logical explanation presents itself the “Myth” becomes truth.
posted by
Troosha
on March 16, 2007 at 11:51 AM
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SuccessWarrior -I asked the nuns that very question when I was 11 years old
The answer they gave me was the usual off the shelf comeback they utilized whenever their nonsensical meanderings were challenged; "we can never know the mind of God"
posted by
gomedome
on March 16, 2007 at 11:19 AM
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Talion - as equally incredible is that where we are hard pressed to find
anyone who believes that vampires are real, the same cannot be said about the war in heaven.
What prompted this post is a conversation I had awhile back with someone who could "prove" that this war took place and could even name many of the combatants beyond archangel Michael, Satan and God. When I suggested that all of these names, numbers and so called facts were artistic elaborations on an implausible fable, I was of course told that I was full of BS. Holding beliefs that are based on observable realities is one thing, I understand how and why people adhere to such things, but to insist that a fable is/was real is quite another.
posted by
gomedome
on March 16, 2007 at 11:16 AM
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Pat_B - I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm driving in St. Louis
posted by
gomedome
on March 16, 2007 at 11:07 AM
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Why would a benevolent god create 1/3 of his people as evil?
posted by
SuccessWarrior
on March 16, 2007 at 10:49 AM
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gomedome
It's amazing how stories like this evolve through the years. Using the vampire example, originally they were ugly as they were evil, preying on the weak and defenseless (and it's no coincidence that a cross could keep them at bay and holy water can kill them). However, due mainly to Anne Rice, the vampire has become a completely different creature. Now they've often portrayed as misunderstood, cursed, and such. What used to be considered stalking and killing prey is now some sort of erotic seduction. (Where in the hell did that idea come from? Sexual attraction to one's food source is a little too outlandish for me. I love a steak as much as the neck guy, but there's no way I'm snuggling up with a cow.) Anyway, my point is the same thing has happened with the stories of Satan, hell, demons, etc. Slowly, but surely, as more authors and such get their hands on the material, they put their unique stamp on it, changing it, etc.
posted by
Talion
on March 16, 2007 at 9:32 AM
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Speaking of bridges -- those in the St. Louis area are falling apart and
landing on cars driving beneath the overpasses. Something about snow removal salt seeping between the concrete chunks and rusting out the metal rebars. Maybe the DOT needs a few guardian angels to stand guard...
posted by
Pat_B
on March 16, 2007 at 8:30 AM
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