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people are still being born, getting ill and dying.
some things have been eradicated, for sure, but it seems new diseases crop up all the time -- diseases unheard a half century ago run rampant today.
people do die, although the average lifespan has increased, much of this due to less infant mortality -- and medical science dealing with what wre once deadly diseases. still death is inevitable.
after death -- that is an unknown basically, although reincarnation makes more sense than the heaven/hell thing -- it gives everyone a chance to improve and live better lives as they are reborn until . . .
posted by
Xeno-x
on March 5, 2007 at 2:17 PM
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Deepananda
This is brilliant! Such exchanges are a joy to the heart. These are the thirteen 'works', unassociated with the feeling of the ego. All others are. The beauty is that you cannot find a fourteenth, and twelve is incomplete. So of course is Araboic, Aramaic - that are incomparable in their vibrational effects and of the similes.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on March 5, 2007 at 4:27 AM
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Bhaskar
You could split up the verse as follows: BG Ch 5:8 ........... paśyañ/śṛṇvan/spṛśañ/jighrann/aśnan/gacchan/vapan/śvasan/pralapan/visṛjan/gṛhṇann/unmiṣan/nimiṣann/
paśyan — seeing; śṛṇvan — hearing; spṛśan — touching; jighran — smelling; aśnan — eating; gacchan — going; svapan — dreaming; śvasan — breathing; pralapan — talking; visṛjan — giving up; gṛhṇan — accepting; unmiṣan — opening; nimiṣan — closing;
posted by
DEEPANANDA
on March 5, 2007 at 1:07 AM
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Bhaskar
Thank you for enlightening me on such a beautiful language. I am able to relate to what you say because I have come across many words in sanskrit that have subtle meaning or meanings that are difficult to express in another language. I do have an appreciation due to the many slokas I use in my meditation and words that I use in writing. There are also lot of Tamil (my mother tongue) words having common origin in Sanskrit. This is true of many languages like Aramaic and Arabic (The richness od Koran is in the vibration produced due to recitation of the original text. Many original converts to Islam were attracted due to the beauty of the verses of revelation to the Prophet.). Thanks again!
posted by
DEEPANANDA
on March 5, 2007 at 12:53 AM
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Deepananda
I have learnt only a bit of Sanskrit. It is so rich a language that it evokes awe in wonderment. Some times it becomes very difficult to translate words in another language, which does not seem to have an exact equivalent. It is also the most scientific language -
parishkrit - chastened, through thousands of years of research, and not natural, as all other languages of the world are. As you must have seen that in the
Brahma Sutra, a single word may have a ten-page interpratation. The best is that the language is so musical that small aphorisms once memorized can give what one would get from a good No. of volumes from a book of Philosophy. The word read correctly is also its exact pronunciation, though the same word may have various connotations depending on the context of the sense being conveyed. For example, in your next post, the word "
Yama" is here self-restraint, but it also means Death. It would sem very strange, even paradoxical, but
self-restraint and
death have a direct relationship between them, which one can never come to think of if the two words have entirely separate meanings. All said, it is difficult to master the almost 'paragraphical' words that makes it a daunting venture to undertake in learning. I am tempted to give one suchword:
Pasyanshrinvansprishanjighranashnangachchanswapanswashanpralapanvishrijangrihnanunmishannimishanapi - one word that tells of the thirteen activities that are non-actions. (Bhagavad-Gita-Ch 5, II line, verse 8).
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on March 4, 2007 at 11:41 PM
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Troosha
I am fully with you. I had precisely raised this question in a recent talk on Stem cell research. All the woes of humanity that we face today is due to irresponsible technology we have developed and applied in the name of progress. Whether it be global warming or drug resistent viruses, it is very linear and analytical thinking that had been responsible. Today we have woken up and initiatives are afoot to move towards more responsible research and development. What we can call this discipline is the "Science of Spirituality" which addresses our ability to responsibly live in harmony with the Cosmos.
posted by
DEEPANANDA
on March 4, 2007 at 9:31 PM
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Bhaskar
A very lucid explanation. Science is based on hypothesis which can be experimentally verified. We are already hitting the limits. Even the latest super colider in CERN cannot tell us all about the origin of the universe or what lies beyond the Big Bang. So time, to which birth is directly related. has its limitation. Thanks for the quote from Adi sankara.
(By the way the only regret I have in my spiritual quest is that I have not formally studied Sanskrit, so I also belong to the crowd who need your translation)
posted by
DEEPANANDA
on March 4, 2007 at 9:23 PM
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Deep
Science, regrettably, is doing two things. Firstly by extending life expectancy it is placing a large financial burden on a decreasing working demographic and secondly it is interfering with the natural cycle of life. I’m not referring to the eradication of diseases such a small pox or TB – it only makes sense that if discoveries are made to eliminate a virus or potentially fatal bacteria it be introduced. I’m referring more to the advancements made to keep a elderly person alive longer than their heart and soul perhaps even desires to live. Life, death, reincarnation is a cycle and to disrupt this cycle will soon become a wider debate as science threatens the natural flow of matter and non matter. Very well written and thought provoking post (a subject that I struggle with frequently).
posted by
Troosha
on March 4, 2007 at 7:51 AM
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But without existence there can be no enjoyment
which is why I do not want to die anytime soon.
posted by
Discombobulated78
on March 4, 2007 at 2:06 AM
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Deepananda
A lovely thought-provoking article. The science we now of as of today dates back probably to 350 to 400 years. If the whole of human history is say 24 hours, then by comparison, science is only two seconds old. It is in its stage of conception, yet to be born. In no way I am denouncing science, it does have its very important place when it comes to the material aspects of life and living, but even when we project science, to say, a thousand years hence or more - any number - it will never be able to catch the spirit. Therefore, death delaying is in science's reach, but not to be born again can never be facilitated by science. Therefore, Buddha knowing this perfectly well, said about the test of time. And, if birth cannot be stopped, then a man may live to a thousand years, even a hundred thousand, but old age and death cannot be eradicated from the planet. Reminds me of the story of King Yayati with hundred sons, and every hundred years that Death came to fetch him, one of his son's life would be taken away in exchange by by Yama upon Yayati’s pleas allowing the father another lease of a hundred, and so on and so forth, but finally Death said, "No more". Dying for him too, was inevitable fact of life that he could not evade. This can be a lovely parallel to the subject of the post.
And as Adi Sankaracharya says about the entire story of life, in his very first verse of Bhaja Govindam in the following words: Samprapte sannihite kale, nahi nahi rakshati dukkrinkarane. You know but for the others who may happen to read this, it says as a declaration:"Life is always and always contained in time; Death deals without distinction to all (living entities). And any amount of effort to ward off death will only prove futile."
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on March 4, 2007 at 12:35 AM
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Moon
Thank you for your appreciation.
posted by
DEEPANANDA
on March 3, 2007 at 8:59 PM
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Tony
"But without existence there can be no enjoyment, even if there is a removal of suffering." I fully agree with you that in our present consciousness, the human existence is mandatory. The post addresses purely a spiritual and cosmic journey of an entity which gets defined only through birth into a human form. This is rather like the 'Russell Paradox' from a logical perspective. Terrestial science itself becomes defunct, once we remove humanity from this world.
Probably the best way to look at this posture is ; given human existence, Can science come to the aid of people to achieve their highest potential and hence avoid rebirth.
posted by
DEEPANANDA
on March 3, 2007 at 8:58 PM
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Deepananda, your words echo those of my Teacher. Please consider that I am now bowing to you and touching your feet. MoonSpirit 
posted by
syzygy
on March 3, 2007 at 7:05 PM
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Hi Deepananda. Good post.
But science assumes that life is all there is. It is not spiritual, even though many scientists may be. It is dispassionate. In its defence, i suppose that those ancient people would have loved to have had twice as long to experience existence, even if it is not always enjoyable. But without existence there can be no enjoyment, even if there is a removal of suffering. Enjoyment can take forms such as sexual fulfilment, observation of beauty, and so on.
posted by
Antonionioni
on March 3, 2007 at 4:29 PM
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