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Bhaskar.ing - thank you and by all means go for it
posted by
gomedome
on December 2, 2006 at 10:28 AM
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Odysseus - I though that I had adequately defined what was being discussed
in the first sentence of this post: "......
those who would least respect the rights, opinions and religious freedoms of others" but the proof is in the pudding. If people are not reading it this way or it becomes ambiguous later on in the post, I may have to look at rewriting this post when it comes up for reposting in 6 months.
posted by
gomedome
on December 2, 2006 at 10:27 AM
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gomedome,
A beautiful analytical piece of writing. What struck me with great force was the paragraph, "
Christian religion, assumed a certain level of respect would be afforded them by other members of society. Considering that most other members of society were Christians themselves, this assumption was reasonable. It is only in recent decades where this assumption has become a demand without acknowledging the need for reciprocation. This is only so because the "rest of society" whom this respect is being demanded of, may not necessarily be Christian". This 'demanding' has taken Christianity away from commanding respect. I would like to quote this paragraph if required, with your permission.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on December 2, 2006 at 1:54 AM
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Gomedome – I agree, like ArGee, my impression was that your message
centered upon a respect for a persons beliefs, not the broader concept of respect for the individual in general. Certainly all human beings deserve respect and certainly the presence of integrity and character enhance respect.
posted by
telemachus
on December 2, 2006 at 12:41 AM
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arGee - I may have given that impression but it is not an opinion that I
would express without some qualification.
It has been my experience that all fundamentalists of all religions exhibit a lack of respect for all other beliefs. Tolerance is not a word that is in all people's vocabularies. Quite often when it is bandied about by some group claiming to be its proponents, it is nothing more than a word.
posted by
gomedome
on December 1, 2006 at 11:30 PM
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I get the sense, Gome...
That you are pointing a finger at the Christians in society for being less tolerant of different beliefs than non-Christians. If I am reading into your comments something you have not put there, please forgive me.
My experience, as I have expressed once or twice here, is that members of the Left spend the most time touting individual rights and freedom of speech, while simultaneously shouting down anybody who disagrees with them. I have literally never experienced this behavior from a group of Christians, but have frequently from Lefties.
posted by
arGee
on December 1, 2006 at 10:49 PM
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Odysseus - still, as you describe it, it sounds as if you place an
individual's beliefs as being the paramount consideration in determining respect for them.
Where it is fair to say that an individual's beliefs can be the foundation for their integrity as well as their character strengths, it is not necessarily so that their beliefs will enhance either in any way. These 3 traits, (belief, integrity and character) are inextricably linked, with all 3 acting as influences upon each other. Using belief alone as a criteria to afford respect to an indvidual ignores the other two criteria, which should be more important in a world where everyone believes differently.
posted by
gomedome
on December 1, 2006 at 10:41 PM
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Gomedome certainly I agree with you that ones beliefs may mature as they
age and as they become spiritually keen…..you know that I did not intend to convey otherwise…..conversely, my point is that it is difficult to garner respect for something that lacks firm cohesion……certainly you must agree that something has to first EXIST in order to muster respect. By defining ones BELIEFS, one establishes that which may serve as the target for the respect.
posted by
telemachus
on December 1, 2006 at 9:52 PM
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ladychardonnay - yes they do hate that
and it matters not who is on the receiving end of this demand . . we all hate it.
posted by
gomedome
on December 1, 2006 at 9:31 PM
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GEPRUITT - why thank you - and I agree with the principle that you have
outlined in your comment.
Upholding a notion as right for any other reason than it being right, contravenes basic honesty. Where human tendencies towards partisanship and familiarity cause us all to loose our objectivity to some degree, developing the ability to see past these things suggests a maturity in an individual's thought processes.
posted by
gomedome
on December 1, 2006 at 9:29 PM
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Schatz - right on - we are entitled to some inherent respect afforded us as
members of the human race.
That is ultimately what makes a person demanding respect for themselves and their religious beliefs without reciprocating so repulsive. They have assumed a position of superiority without considering that all persons hold their own beliefs, religious or philisophical, with the same degree of confidence in those beliefs.
posted by
gomedome
on December 1, 2006 at 9:18 PM
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Gomedome, yes, that's exactly what I meant
and, yes, it gets pretty thick at times
posted by
Blanche.
on December 1, 2006 at 9:07 PM
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Blanche.- I'm assuming that you mean that you run into it from other
religious folks. (correct me if I am wrong)
It stands to reason that anyone capable of firing a manure cannon at others may not necessarily have the best aim . . . nor be capable of picking the best targets.
posted by
gomedome
on December 1, 2006 at 9:03 PM
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Talion - first off welcome back, Blogit is a better place with you than
without you.
It really is as simple as the few thoughts you reduce it to in your comment. Respect is earned, demanding it when it is not earned or warranted never achieves receiving it. Attempting to do so without a proportionate reciprocation only fosters contempt.
posted by
gomedome
on December 1, 2006 at 8:59 PM
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Odysseus - that ranks as the most ridiculous thing that I have ever heard
If you impose that prerequisite to any degree, it means that you cannot have respect for any living person on this planet until the day they die. There is not a human being alive whos beliefs are not in a constant state of evolution. What a person believes at 10 years of age they are not likely to believe at 20, it would change again by 30 and countless times thereafter. Did you just rattle that off? I cannot believe that you gave your words any thought before committing them to a comment.
posted by
gomedome
on December 1, 2006 at 7:07 PM
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Gomedome …..Fully defining ones beliefs
is a prerequisite to gaining respect for them.
posted by
telemachus
on December 1, 2006 at 6:14 PM
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a person earns respect - they never can demand it - people hate that
posted by
ladychardonnay
on December 1, 2006 at 5:34 PM
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GOMME
FIRST OF ALL, NO ONE NOW, OR EVER WILL, GAIN MY RESPECT SIMPLY BY "DEMANDING" IT. A PERSON WILL GAIN MY RESPECT BY ACTING IN SUCH A MANNER AS TO "COMMAND" (THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "DEMANDING" AND "COMMANDING") IT. ON YOUR LAST EXCHANGE (WITH "WHAT'S HIS NAME?"), YOU GAINED MY EARLY RESPECT BY YOUR HANDLING OF THE DEBATE. EARLY ON IN THIS "DEBATE" IN THE COMMENTARY, I GAVE THAT RESPECT TO YOU BY SAYING "GOME IS RIGHT ON THIS ONE; THE CHRISTIANS ARE WRONG!"
I DO NOT ALWAYS AGREE WITH YOUR POSITION, BUT, OVERALL, YOU HAVE A PRETTY DAMNED-GOOD TRACK RECORD WITH ME. TO SUPPORT YOUR POSITION, EVEN OVER ONE WHO SHOULD BE OF MY OWN CHRISTIAN MIND-SET, SHOULD SAY MORE THAN A DOZEN OR SO PAGES OF TYPE.
GERALD
posted by
GEPRUITT
on December 1, 2006 at 3:35 PM
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I usually can respect people on the basis that we're all human.
Howerver, I don't like being talked down to, and that's usually what I feel is happening when I'm told I should be more respectful of people's religious beliefs. I'd prefer that people respected the sacredness of
humanity, treating one another with kindness and compassion regardless of religious belief, sexual orientation, skin color, economic status or education. I wish all humans would recognize that we are all in the same boat, and that religion is only
one of the things we choose to separate ourselves with. SIGH.
posted by
Schatz
on December 1, 2006 at 2:29 PM
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I have run into that attitude myself a time or two, Gomedome, ironic,no?
posted by
Blanche.
on December 1, 2006 at 11:54 AM
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gomedome
The first problem is when anyone "demands" respect. Like love, respect is given freely, but only after it's earned. I try to treat everyone with a degree of civility, but I only respect those who truly deserve it.
posted by
Talion
on December 1, 2006 at 11:48 AM
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